Chris King Hubs

[jhcakilmer]

I'm interested to hear about peoples experience with Chris King hubs. A close friend, and member of this forum said that the hubs had considerable bearing drag. This sounded kind of funny, especially considering the cost of the hubs, and the renow/ned quality that CK is know for. Is this true? If so, why? Are there remidies? Thanks

[dirtdigger88]

the drag is in the ring drive (more engagement prawls) not in the bearings-

it only happens when you coast-

and then the hubs are screaming so loud who the h*ll cares

Ive got a killer set of kings on dt 1.1s Id sell you to try out

Jason

[pdxmech13]

I wouldn't sell'em.

[11.4]

I've ridden Chris King hubs for a number of years. They have those who love them, those who hate them.

The bearing drag issue has a couple facets. First, the bearings have user-serviceable seals that do in fact have a certain amount of drag but also provide much better sealing. Also, the bearings are set in plastic clips that are self-scrubbing -- they rub against the balls themselves and clean off any dirt that might get inside -- and this creates some of the drag as well (remove the seals completely and you still feel the drag even as you are staring at the clips). Second, the ring drive itself has superb engagement but the mechanism has a bit more resistance than, say, current high end Campy wheelsets but no more than most other hubsets. Third, the drag you feel while holding the hub in your hand or spinning the wheel on the bike has no relation to how it performs while loaded. The actual rolling performance of the hubs was studied to death years ago by Tour Magazin and others and shown to be equivalent to or better than most of the rest.

The freehub ring-drive assembly requires a very light lube. While CK makes what they call RingLube for this purpose, they also recommend straight TriFlow. For road use the TriFlow works very well and reduces drag a hair. But the RingLube really suppresses the buzz of the freehub when coasting.

What not to like about CK's?

1. Shimano only. You can't get a Campy freehub for them and they don't seem willing to come up with one.
2. They don't warranty radial spoking. That being said, I've never seen a radially spoked CK hub fail and I've seen a lot of them. Actually the only case I ever saw had also been the victim of a car accident where the wheel had been run over by a car. No surprise it broke.
3. CK public relations are somewhat mixed. They are big supporters of the Komen Foundation (breast cancer). On the other hand, they demand draconian retailer agreements and they don't have competitive employee purchase programs for retail store employees -- the result: bike store employees tend to grump about them and some stores won't carry them (and then have to diss them to explain why).
4. The noise. When freewheeling, they are one of the loudest hubs out there, but for that you get one of the best engagement mechanisms. DT is quieter and very close in engagement quality, so it's an alternative to consider if the noise really gets to you. However, I rarely freewheel so this isn't an issue for me and when I do coast, it's not that intolerable. If you are used to riding the almost silent Mavic hubsets, you may not like CK's.
5. If you use off-brand cassettes you may encounter problems with the innermost cog rubbing on the spokes. This is only because their spider or cog wasn't engineered to clear the right flange properly. It's not a problem with any Shimano cassettes. I don't think this is a criticism of King.

What to like?

1. Great colors. (OK, that's not really reason number one.)
2. Bombproof reliability. I've ridden wheels through a whole winter of heavy rain and muck and the only dirt I find is on the outside of the seals -- the insides are pristine. I have one pair of CK's with about 25,000 miles and it's only been lubricated twice. At this point I'm ignoring it intentionally just to see if I can kill it and then get another color.
3. Easy repair. Unless you are actually pulling bearings you don't need the tool kit. Two 5 mm allen keys and a can of TriFlow and you don't need anything else.
4. The inter-flange distance in the rear is one of the highest among current hubs (56.5 mm, I believe) so it builds one of the strongest wheels possible in a 10-speed variety. The dish is not as dramatic as on some popular hubs and with the wide flange spacing you get a more reliable wheel.
5. CK is very sensitive to environmental issues -- they stopped producing components in certain colors whose anodization involved reagents particularly toxic in the environment.
6. Very good customer service -- if I've had to send them an item for any problem, it comes back next day on their nickel and it's always fixed with a clear explanation of what went wrong.

I can't tell you to love CK hubs. They are pricey, they are noisier, and some people like to diss them. However, they are a quality level worth the money and if you like the positive features, you'll never let them go.

[dirtdigger88]

11.4-

how many words can you type a minute-

oh and +1

Jason

[Fixed]

over priced imho bro
cheers

[obtuse]

mechanically the hubs are excellent. nonetheless, i do not like the way they build up for 700c rear wheels. the non-drive spoke tension is always extremely low compared to the drive side and as 11.4 said, chris king doesn't allow for radial spoking.

we've debated ad nauseam the effects of equalizing spoke tension has on wheels and the effect of flange distanc and all the rest....still i'm not a fan of the resulting spoke tension on a chris king rear wheel when built to a shallow section 700c rim.

anyway,

obtuse

[coylifut]

wow, i always loved my ck hubs because they survive mudy cross races. i didn't know there was all those other reasons

[hess]

Originally Posted by jhcakilmer

A close friend, and member of this forum said that the hubs had considerable bearing drag. If so, why? Are there remidies?

i hope somebody does some testing on drag in the near future so discussions about drag related to hubs and bottom brackets will end.

seriously....how many hundreths of a kilowatt are you worried about wasting on those weekend club rides?

Originally Posted by 11.4

What not to like about CK's?

2. They don't warranty radial spoking.

i enjoy this fact most of all......since radial spoking offers no real performance advantage....

Originally Posted by 11.4

3. they don't have competitive employee purchase programs for retail store employees -- the result: bike store employees tend to grump about them and some stores won't carry them (and then have to diss them to explain why).

HUH? you mean like REI or _bike_ shops? i picked up a single speed hubset and classic hubset for $200 per set through the EP program......as a mechanic, i think that's a _VERY_ good deal.

i've never heard any mechanic complain about CK prices....

Originally Posted by 11.4

4. The noise. When freewheeling, they are one of the loudest hubs out there

the last 45 or so wheels i've built with kings have been VERY quite....these were everything from road classics to mountain discs.....

they have been filling them with more Ring Drive grease from the factory for 2006 so the majority of sets have been near silent....i've had customers ask me what can be done to make them a bit more noisy.

in most cases it comes down to the lubricant used. if you experiement with the amount of RD grease used....you can change how loud the rings are.....

on that note, abnd refering to an earlier statement.....i want to make sure that you also understand that while King recommends using TriFlow....please note that it is recommended "in a pinch" and is not to be a replacement lubricant for the Ring Drive grease.

also, on that note....NOT using the hub tool to take the hub apart for _complete_ service leaves lots of residue in areas of the hub that can't be reached.....

when i worked at King...there was extensive testing done with LOTS of cleaners and solvents to see which would _completely_ (i can't stress that word enough...we wanted a SPOTLESS interior) clean out the hub _without_ a full service with the hub tool...in every case we found gritty residue and solvent in various nooks and crannys that would eventually mix with the RD grease and reduce the effectiveness.

in cases where there was bearing failure the questionaire done by the phone reps would come back marked None when the customer was asked how many times the hub was serviced with the hub tool.

Originally Posted by 11.4

They are pricey....

i think if more people read the PUCK article, they'd understand that the colors, light weight, and superior engaement mechanism are just a small, tiny, miniscue reason that they cost a slight bit more....


and while i did work there....i wasn't exactly when you'd call a "fan" of the King product....but after seeing how they opperate and the lengths they go to...it was hard to hate going to work....

i'm currently riding a 10 year old set of classics which have been serviced with the hub tool about every 6 months. not a _single_ part from hub has worn out or been replaced. i bought these at full retail as i wasn't working at a shop at the time. $350 for the set over the course of 10 years equals to $35 dollars a year for a trouble free service life...

[ti_boi]

Originally Posted by jhcakilmer

I'm interested to hear about peoples experience with Chris King hubs. A close friend, and member of this forum said that the hubs had considerable bearing drag. This sounded kind of funny, especially considering the cost of the hubs, and the renow/ned quality that CK is know for. Is this true? If so, why? Are there remidies? Thanks

They are loud enough to scare animals and small children....is bearing drag something you wear with a pair of satin pumps?

[michael white]

funny.
I have a pair of DT hubs on one bike. They are REALLY noisy, I think subsequently they made them quieter. But when I hear that noise, I think, oh yeah these are my good wheels . . . Mostly I'm just happy with ultegra or whatever.

[gt6267a]

Originally Posted by michael white

funny.
I have a pair of DT hubs on one bike. They are REALLY noisy, I think subsequently they made them quieter. But when I hear that noise, I think, oh yeah these are my good wheels . . . Mostly I'm just happy with ultegra or whatever.

i have a pair of hugi 240 on the road bike. they are maybe 8-9 years old. they are loud. i have a new pair of dt 240s on the mtn bike. they are almost silent.

[J.Greene]

I am one that believes they have a noticable ammount of drag over other wheels. I'm not saying thats a con though. In my mind better seals=more drag. They are great hubs. I wish they'd engineer a campy compatible hub.

JG

[Grant McLean]

Originally Posted by J.Greene

I am one that believes they have a noticable ammount of drag over other wheels. I'm not saying thats a con though. In my mind better seals=more drag. They are great hubs. I wish they'd engineer a campy compatible hub.

JG

I think the 'drag' issue is only unweighted, as 11.4 explains.
Once the bearing is preloaded, the friction of the seal is tiny.

+1 on the campy version.

The noise level on any hub is just as much about the lube as
the design. My Campy record hubs on the Geesawa were screamin'
loud. A couple of drops of lube, and they're silent.

g

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by J.Greene

I wish they'd engineer a campy compatible hub.JG

King would have to use a significantly smaller axle diameter to build a Campy compatible hub. The ID of a Campy cassette body is smaller than that of a Shimano. The smaller ID does not allow for the oversized axle (as it passes through the cassette body) that King currently uses.

Jeremy