Tubular Mounting (another amazing thread)

[nmrt]

Guys,
I am thinking about making the jump to tubulars (on a carbon rim). After years of being non-commital, I think I am now pretty certain that I will buy a pair of carbon tubulars and mount the tires myself.

I have watched tons of videos on youtube and I come away confused on many aspects. Namely:
1) pre-stretching: should I pre-stretch the tires?
2) how long to pre-stretch the tires?
3) how many glue coats on the rim?
4) do I need to glue coat the tires as well?

The source of my confusion comes from different videos recommending different things on the above procedures. If any of you have a proved method, please let me know. Or if you have a link to a video or a write-up that has worked for you, I would be grateful.
Thanks!

[Andy sti]

1) Yes
2) as long as you want, min 24 hrs
3) 3
4) Yes, 2 coats

Now how long to wait between coats of glue? You'll find everything from a couple hours to 24 hours.

Final rim coat before you mount the tires. Just let it get a little tacky then go for it!

[christian]

1) Yes
2) A week? Or 24 hours min.
3) 2 coats on rim + a flash coat just before mounting
4) 2 coats on baselayer of tire.

[RyanH]

I find that Veloflex and Vittoria do not need to be pre-stretched. Continental Sprinters need at least 24 hours and still plan on a frustrating installation.

When installing, insert valve and keep the tire very tight while holding 6" or so on each side. Apply that area first and continue working down as you apply as much moderate stretching pressure as you work around the rim.

Oh, and one other thing, if this is a clean, brand new rim, you need to wipe down with alcohol (or acetone, check the manual) then scuff to give the glue something to hold onto.

[MarkC]

Conti tubbies.... are a pain in the arse.

Pre-stretch them dry for a week pumped each day or twice a day to 120+ Then pre glue the tires to saturate the base tape and then mount back on the stretcher rims for a day or two to "re-stretch". Then mount on the wheels to be ridden.

Some of these Contis are so stupid tight out of the box can not even dry mount them to the stretcher rims (TT Podiums, recent vintage). A day or two stretch on some clincher rims at 80 or so PSI will stretch them enough to get them onto the sew-up rims for proper stretching.

I don't like to do the old stomp and pull pre-stretch so while the above sounds involved, it works and is a fairly gentle approach. Vittoria and other tires with other brand names on them go a lot easier.

Am a three coats on the rim, two on the tire guy. Depending on the base tape maybe three. Mastik 1 and acid flux brushes using thin coats.

Its not difficult to mount a sew-up, just take your time and do it right.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by nmrt

Guys,
I am thinking about making the jump to tubulars (on a carbon rim). After years of being non-commital, I think I am now pretty certain that I will buy a pair of carbon tubulars and mount the tires myself.

I have watched tons of videos on youtube and I come away confused on many aspects. Namely:
1) pre-stretching: should I pre-stretch the tires?
2) how long to pre-stretch the tires?
3) how many glue coats on the rim?
4) do I need to glue coat the tires as well?

The source of my confusion comes from different videos recommending different things on the above procedures. If any of you have a proved method, please let me know. Or if you have a link to a video or a write-up that has worked for you, I would be grateful.
Thanks!

1)yes
2) I stretch a batch for as long as I can...I have 4-5 toasted rims-stretch 4-5 tires..use the longest stretched first.Minimum about 2-3 days I think.
3)do this-new tire and rim(scuff up rim a little with emory paper and clean with acetone)-one right after the other-
Glue tire, glue rim, glue tire, glue rim, glue tire-WAIT until glue doesn't stick to your fingers(about 10-15 minutes)-glue rim-mount tire, add a wee bit of air(like 20 psi)center/roll on floor..

Use a solvent brush, use thin coats, thin coats..edge to edge of base tape.
4)-see above

Been doing this for about 35 years, to my knowledge, never had a tire roll, mine or scads of customers tires...I like Panaracer glue..Vittoria close second. Also Weldwood contact cement.

Put 4 people in a room and ask about gluing tubies-get 5 opinions..many different ways, one thing for sure. the glue and wait 24 hours, then add glue again, then wait another..is complete balderdash..contact cement-no need to do this.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by nmrt

1) pre-stretching: should I pre-stretch the tires?
2) how long to pre-stretch the tires?
3) how many glue coats on the rim?
4) do I need to glue coat the tires as well?

Keep in mind that when dealing with tight tires it's the tire that's tight. Carbon rims are generally similar in diameter, at least from one batch to another, because molds don't have a wide range of error. Tubular tires have a wider range of variability due to it being a tube that is cut and joined. A tight tubular is usually because of the tire. An extruded aluminum rim has a much wider range of tolerance (length of metal cut and joined), clincher tires have a very narrow range of variability (molded and wire beads are pretty precise), so generally a tight clincher is because of the rim.

1. Pre-stretch - as mentioned above Vittorias don't need pre-stretch. Neither do Bontragers. These are the only two brands I've used in the last 7 or 8 years. I did have some Contis before that (generally prefer the Vittorias) and I don't remember anything about mounting them other than I can never get them straight and Vittorias and Bontragers go on straight without effort. If it's me then I'm just unable to mount tubulars properly but I suspect that Contis (Sprinter, Competition) aren't made straight or their casing is such that they twist easily.
2. No pre-stretch necessary. My fastest glue job on a brand new tire was when I got a call that the Missus was being induced. It was a Thursday, I needed to replace a tire, and I had a race on Sunday (that I was promoting as well as racing so basically I had to be there; only if there was a serious problem with the Missus/baby would I call the race). I ran down into the basement, grabbed a random Vittoria tire (I had maybe 10-15 tires), a tube of glue, and proceeded to glue the tire. It took maybe 10 minutes tops. I'd previously removed the old tire, else it would have taken me much much longer. Somehow I managed to not get glue anywhere, I went to the hospital, and after a day and change no baby. He arrived next week, Sat AM (and yes I left that afternoon to do course prep and Sunday race promotion). Glue job was fine, tire straight, etc.

3. Rim - I usually do a very light coat as a primer, a second coat where I try to cover everything including the narrow bits around the spoke holes, and if I missed anything or I let it sit too long I do a third thin coat, primer thickness. The last coat is partially to introduce some solvent to the glue, esp if I let it sit a while and glue is too dry feeling. If glue is too dry then impossible to adjust tire.

4. Tire - Two coats, light primer kind of coat, then a slightly heavier one. I do a lighter coat again if the tire is too dry.

My take on mounting tubulars in a bit more detail:
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...e-tubular.html

[cachagua]

Mounting sew-ups, in a few easy steps:

1) Mess it up.
2) Do a slightly better job.
3) Improve a little more.
...
∞) Get pretty half-assed decent at it.

Like piano, or a foreign language, it's not something you learn by watching videos, or (all due respect) by getting advice. Trust yourself, don't expect perfection first time out the gate, start with stuff that matters less (i.e. not your team-pursuit wheels), and MOST of all: enjoy the learning process.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

3)do this-new tire and rim(scuff up rim a little with emory paper and clean with acetone

done this with alloy rims, is acetone alright for carbon rims too? Or will it upset whatever holds carbon together.

Nevermind update: Zinn reports that Hed and Zipp recommend acetone for carbon rims too.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2005/...questions_9143

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[slinkywizard]

consider skipping the glue and give effetto mariposa's tubular tape a try...very easy to install...have been using it on my LW's with some veloflex carbon's (no stretching needed for those) and has held up great

[spartanKid]

Another excellent tip I've learned is once you let the coat(s) on the tire dry, stretch it again on a DRY (emphasis on dry) rim.

As the glue dries, the cloth basetape can contract a bit (especially when it's not coated) and undo some of the stretching.

Contis are for sure the worst to mount. Schwalbes seem to not need that much pre-stretch, a day or less seemed to do OK.

[weaponsgrade]

The key tip for me was inflating the tires as part of the stretching process, i.e., don't just mount the new unglued tire on the rim, but pump it up to like 130psi.

[nmrt]

Thank you all for the great tips. I think I am soon going to by a pair of carbon tubulars (maybe reynolds thirty two) and dip into the tubular world.

slinkywizard -- good tip on the effetto mariposa's tubular tape. I did not know about it. Might end up trying that as well.

[Dead Man]

I've never stretched vittorias.. I used to just give it a tug before I glued it, but I haven't even done that for several mountings

I know there are some tires that are tighter, though

So if Vittoria, for me: no stretch, one coat rim, one coAt tire, one more coat rim, mount. No waiting time between any of that

And with mastik one, I'll ride pretty much immediately.. But usually wait an hour

Some people go pretty crazy with the process, taking days to mount their ****.. But in my experience, and as someone on the top-10 leaderboard of all the local major winding mountain descents with nary a rolled tire, it just isn't that complicated.

[quattro]

I mounted a set of Vittoria Corsa Elite 25mm tubulars to a pair of Novatec Sprint aluminum wheels. The stems on both wheels are not totally seated and stick up a bit. I had stretched the tires of over a month on the wheels, they didn't go on easily, but they did go on and are pretty centered. Should I remove them? Or can I ride on them as they are? Is there a way to get them to mount flush?

Thanks for your suggestions,
quattro