Question for the wheel builders

Tony T · #1 10-07-2014, 03:31 PM

Is this rear hub laced correctly?
Took the wheel to a LBS to have it trued (after the 2nd popped spoke), and I was told that the rear drive side is laced backwards.

Here's a pic:

zacstanley · #2 10-07-2014, 03:39 PM

Sort hard to tell from the pic. But the alternating head up/head down configuration looks correct. From what I can tell the lacing looks correct as well.

Did they suggest another lacing pattern?

Zac

Marburg · #3 10-07-2014, 03:46 PM

Definitely wrong. Send it to me and I'll ensure it's properly destroyed ...

Sorry. Looks right to me unless there is literally a mistake in the lacing pattern. I _believe_ that having the "pulling" spokes (the ones that point backwards) head-in (as you have) is a better configuration due to the slightly wider bracing angle, but I also suspect anyone who tells you it _must_ be that way or else is trying to sell you something.

ultraman6970 · #4 10-07-2014, 04:09 PM

You need to put a picture of the whole wheel to start with, then the driver side but from the side.

Laced backwards?? how you can lace backwards? when the spoke is heads in, then the guy put it heads out?

What is the wheel for? how much do you weight? and how many spokes are we talking about?

Where did the spoke snapped? head or nipple?

Tony T · #5 10-07-2014, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacstanley

Sort hard to tell from the pic. But the alternating head up/head down configuration looks correct. From what I can tell the lacing looks correct as well.

Did they suggest another lacing pattern?

Zac

The LBS was not suggesting another lacing pattern. Said that it was laced 'backward', his meaning that the trailing spoke (the pulling spoke) should be "head out" and the leading spoke (the pushing spoke) should be "head in".
He said this could be the cause of my popped spokes. I don't see how this could be the cause (and one popped at the head, while the other popped at the nipple).

Tony T · #6 10-07-2014, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

You need to put a picture of the whole wheel to start with, then the driver side but from the side.

Laced backwards?? how you can lace backwards? when the spoke is heads in, then the guy put it heads out?

What is the wheel for? how much do you weight? and how many spokes are we talking about?

Where did the spoke snapped? head or nipple?

Wheel is being trued, so I can't post another pic for a few days (I never could learn the art of wheel truing

)

Spoke count is 28, rider weight 160.

Two week ago popped at the head (was out of town, LBS repaired), and yesterday popped at the nipple.

oldpotatoe · #7 10-07-2014, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony T

The LBS was not suggesting another lacing pattern. Said that it was laced 'backward', his meaning that the trailing spoke (the pulling spoke) should be "head out" and the leading spoke (the pushing spoke) should be "head in".
He said this could be the cause of my popped spokes. I don't see how this could be the cause (and one popped at the head, while the other popped at the nipple).

Balderdash. 'Most' lace head in or 'outside pulling' but either works.

Not the 'cause' of broken spokes. Broken spokes due to too low tension either from a warped(bent) rim either from an impact or poor build to start with.

Alloy nipples?

dvancleve · #8 10-07-2014, 04:35 PM

There are (very) minor pros and cons to each of the options, but it really comes down to preference. There's no right and wrong. Me personally, I lace my wheels the way yours are laced, but I understand the reason someone would do it the other way. I don't believe it has any bearing on any forces on the spokes...

Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony T

The LBS was not suggesting another lacing pattern. Said that it was laced 'backward', his meaning that the trailing spoke (the pulling spoke) should be "head out" and the leading spoke (the pushing spoke) should be "head in".

thirdgenbird · #9 10-07-2014, 04:38 PM

I had someone tell me my wheel was "backwards" too. In reality, Campagnolo laces their OEM wheels in the same manor. The wheels I had built from a trusted builder are also laced that way.

I would find a different mechanic to true it...

Tony T · #10 10-07-2014, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Balderdash. 'Most' lace head in or 'outside pulling' but either works.

Not the 'cause' of broken spokes. Broken spokes due to too low tension either from a warped(bent) rim either from an impact or poor build to start with.

Thanks. That's what I thought, as I couldn't see how it would have any effect, but while I can handle just about any wrenching on a bike, wheel building is still a mystery to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Alloy nipples?

Yes

Tony T · #11 10-07-2014, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

I had someone tell me my wheel was "backwards" too. In reality, Campagnolo laces their OEM wheels in the same manor. The wheels I had built from a trusted builder are also laced that way.

I would find a different mechanic to true it...

Getting harder to do these days….

Thanks guys for the info. I'll comfortable now that the lacing, as is, is ok.

ultraman6970 · #12 10-07-2014, 06:15 PM

I dont lace wheels profesionally ok? just for me and probably like 1 set each two years and honestly dont see why the cross in that picture can be wrong, worse case scenario the valve hole is in the wrong cross but is not like... "yeah must be done such and such way or wont work".

The main problem when you have low count spoke wheels (your wheel is 28 spokes right?) is that once one spoke snaps, the other ones will start failing afterwards, so probably that's why the other spoke died afterwards. IMO soon you will have another spoke gone.

This is what I would do... since apparently you can true wheels ok? Swap all the spokes at the side that failed for straight gauge spokes (hope you arent picky because you have no matching spokes) and retrue that thing yourself. Why? well... looks like you can do it, second you will have more control of what had been done to the wheel, LBS guy can tell you whatever but one thing is for sure, the 50 or 60 bucks to replace the spoke won't include a 3 hour truing session, but maybe a 10 mins "ok its like round now" truing session, thing that is logical IMO.

Tony T · #13 10-07-2014, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

This is what I would do... since apparently you can true wheels ok?

I can handle just about any wrenching job, but I could never master the art of truing a wheel (I have the cheaper Park stand), so this is one of the few jobs I leave to a LBS. I could send back to the builder to true, but with shipping costs and turn-around time, easier to take local.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

The main problem when you have low count spoke wheels (your wheel is 28 spokes right?) is that once one spoke snaps, the other ones will start failing afterwards, so probably that's why the other spoke died afterwards. IMO soon you will have another spoke gone.

Well, it that does happen, I might just send the hub to the builder and get a new build with a new rim.

ultraman6970 · #14 10-07-2014, 07:25 PM

Tony, honestly, true wheels isnt that hard as you think it is. Use the oldest wheels you have to practice... you get bored, try again till you figure it out.

jhat · #15 10-07-2014, 07:35 PM

Just a note that breaking at the nipple or spoke head will not de corrected by straight gauge spokes. You are not breaking the spokes in the thinner middle section of a butted spoke. As was mentioned the other spokes have probably been stressed by the original break and you might have had insufficient tension to begin with.

Truing a wheel is not that hard, just take your time and see if you can get someone to help you with the first one.