Opinion piece on Nibali

[Md3000]

Originally in Dutch by Frank Heinen for HP/De Tijd Magazine. Tried to translate as best as I could just cos I thought it had some interesting view points even though the subject of doping is really boring. Mods feel free to delete if this opens up a can of worms



Nibali: Enjoyment or deception – a conversation with myself.


“Seen it?”

“What?”

“Nibali of course!”

“Yeah, incredible…”

“Amazing huh, What an athlete, such power, such style. Did you see how he finished? Hardly breathing, man. Gosh what a super talent,”

“Hmm I dunno”

“You don’t know?”

“Yeah”

“WHAT do you not know?”

“Just.. Nibali”

“Aw come on..”

“1. He rides for Astana, the team of Vinokourov, who recently got an award for his services for the medical industry, 2. He’s being supported by Scarponi, someone who has peed next to the cup so many times that he must be standing in a pool of urine to his knees, 3. He’s way too strong for the competition, and on all sorts of terrain; little climbs, long climbs, real mountains en even on the cobbles… do I need to go on?”

“Have you ever heard of the term ‘innocence presumption’ ?”

“innocence what?”

“That you’re innocent until the opposite is proven”.”

“Oh yeah.”

“Well?”

“What? Well, we have been lied to so many times before”

“We?”

“Yeah We, the fans.”

“Well, me personally, I’ve never been lied to.”

“Not by Armstrong? Not by Ullrich, Indurain, Pantani, Boogerd and god knows who else?”

“Nah. They didn’t speak the truth, but I never experienced it as lies. They weren’t lying to me, they did to the organizers of the races they won, or, in Boogerd’s case, almost won. When you follow cycling, you have to understand that things happen that are forbidden by the rules, but they are not necessarily rejectionable.”

“I don’t understand you. You don’t want to see an honest sport?”

“No.”

“WHAT?”

“The notion that sport is unfair. Some have less talent, others prefer to train harder, have a bigger lung capacity, better gear or parents that pushed them harder, or more tactical insight. The excitement of racing comes from the people that contest each other with unequal means.”

“Well those means seem VERY unequal in this Tour.”

“Can you enjoy an amazing achievement without thinking of all kinds of deception?”

“Can you enjoy a clearly suspicious achievement without trying to figure out how it was achieved?”

“You first.”

“Don’t feel like it.”

“Well neither do I.”

“OK this is weird. We are one and the same person.”

“Yeah, kinda schizo.”

“Yeah.”

“But still. It is a great rider, Nibali? He attacks, it’s a spectacle, nice humble guy. So different from Armstrong and the others. Also: this is the new cycling. Ask Maarten Ducrot, or any of the other commentators: Nibali’s wins are those of a ‘human’”

“I’m not saying it’s not a nice guy and a quality rider, but I don’t want to see the nicest guy, I want the best.”

“I didn’t know you were so strict.”

“I didn’t know you were such a naïve romantic.”

“I repeat: the achievements and wattage are ‘human’, that guy is just really well prepared. New training methods, focus, good nutrition, that sort of thing.”

“Prepared, you mean.”

“Well what do I care? As long as I get to see a great race!”

“Race? It’s a play!”

“I prefer a nice piece of fiction than a utterly boring comparison of bodily functions.”

“So you let yourself be fooled and you don’t mind?”

“Nah, not really. Nibali is like the writer of a beautiful, enticing memoir about his experiences in a concentration camp. A book that I throroughly enjoy reading. Do you still enjoy it if you happen to find out that its writer was actually born in 1953 and was never anywhere near a camp executioner? No.”

“But it’s still deception. Something’s being sold to you, while it is actually something else. That book you mention doesn’t mean anything if it’s not true.”

“…but you enjoyed it, what more do you want?”

“Will you ever become a cynic?”

“Cycling was invented to enjoy it, not to become cynic.”

“I find my own cynicism quite pleasant.”

“That’s fine, as long as you don’t become angry.”

“Promised.”

“Good”

“Can we go get a cold beer now?”

“Just one?”

“Yeah, we’re only by ourself”

“True.”

[bcroslin]

It's a total drag that while watching the tour, anytime I think of the guy in yellow all I can think is what is he on that the tests aren't detecting? Especially Nibali and Astana.

[Saint Vitus]

I suggest taking up following men's competitive badminton then...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by bcroslin

It's a total drag that while watching the tour, anytime I think of the guy in yellow all I can think is what is he on that the tests aren't detecting? Especially Nibali and Astana.

I don't think he is well served by winning or nearly winning 2 stages in a row. Dumb. Just causes and encourages the above. Vino and Astana doesn't help.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by bcroslin

It's a total drag that while watching the tour, anytime I think of the guy in yellow all I can think is what is he on that the tests aren't detecting? Especially Nibali and Astana.

Guess the test results from the 2013 Giro were flawed as well.

[redir]

I'm always willing to give the benifit of the doubt and when upon finding the truth, if some one gets caught doping, then no amount of wrath coming down from the UCI as punishment is good enough for me. Permanent ban. Period.

[ceolwulf]

The only solution is to be a fan of guys that have zero chance of winning anything. Because the instant a rider pulls ahead some cynic starts waving the dope flag. Getting really really old.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I don't think he is well served by winning or nearly winning 2 stages in a row. Dumb. Just causes and encourages the above. Vino and Astana doesn't help.

LeMond used to say something like "Everyone has at least one bad day... if they're riding human"

So let's see in the Pyrenees, cause Nibali hasn't looked close to bad... he's looked super day in and day out. Hell, he beat Cance and Sagan on the cobbles.

TJVG, Pinot, Valverde, Peraud have all had at least one bad day. Richie Porte has had three. Others have looked up and down but Nibali...Bardet has looked consistent but a level lower for sure.

So let's see going forward. It's reasonable to me that he could get through this much keeping a high level, but if he goes through the whole 3rd week looking just as strong. Well, I don't want to see that or think about it until it happens if it does.

[texbike]

I like the guy, his style, and his ability on the bike. However, I do smell smoke....

Regardless, it won't stop me from enjoying the race.

Texbike

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by Saint Vitus

I suggest taking up following men's competitive badminton then...

In 2010, the world #1 tested positive for clenbuterol.
Earlier this year, the former Olympic Gold medalist from London was banned for missing too many drug tests.

[mtechnica]

Nibali has been one of the top 10 cyclists in the world for at least 3-4 ys and if we're talking 'bad days' yeah Nibs has fallen short many times, but he's consistently good and trained to peak specifically for this tour. Folks surprised by his performance haven't been following cycling very closely imo, especially since he's probably in the 60kg range which puts him right there with climbers like Contador or Bardet. Also he's one of the best bike handlers out there so I think he deserves a little credit beyond luck for not crashing IMHO

[ohsnapitsed]

Originally Posted by ceolwulf

The only solution is to be a fan of guys that have zero chance of winning anything. Because the instant a rider pulls ahead some cynic starts waving the dope flag. Getting really really old.

Agreed! 100%

Also- with a few of the GC favorites going into the race having abandoned, he's almost in his own category.

[bobswire]

Originally Posted by Md3000

Originally in Dutch by Frank Heinen for HP/De Tijd Magazine. Tried to translate as best as I could just cos I thought it had some interesting view points even though the subject of doping is really boring. Mods feel free to delete if this opens up a can of worms



Nibali: Enjoyment or deception – a conversation with myself.


“Seen it?”

“What?”

“Nibali of course!”

“Yeah, incredible…”

“Amazing huh, What an athlete, such power, such style. Did you see how he finished? Hardly breathing, man. Gosh what a super talent,”

“Hmm I dunno”

“You don’t know?”

“Yeah”

“WHAT do you not know?”

“Just.. Nibali”

“Aw come on..”

“1. He rides for Astana, the team of Vinokourov, who recently got an award for his services for the medical industry, 2. He’s being supported by Scarponi, someone who has peed next to the cup so many times that he must be standing in a pool of urine to his knees, 3. He’s way too strong for the competition, and on all sorts of terrain; little climbs, long climbs, real mountains en even on the cobbles… do I need to go on?”

“Have you ever heard of the term ‘innocence presumption’ ?”

“innocence what?”

“That you’re innocent until the opposite is proven”.”

“Oh yeah.”

“Well?”

“What? Well, we have been lied to so many times before”

“We?”

“Yeah We, the fans.”

“Well, me personally, I’ve never been lied to.”

“Not by Armstrong? Not by Ullrich, Indurain, Pantani, Boogerd and god knows who else?”

“Nah. They didn’t speak the truth, but I never experienced it as lies. They weren’t lying to me, they did to the organizers of the races they won, or, in Boogerd’s case, almost won. When you follow cycling, you have to understand that things happen that are forbidden by the rules, but they are not necessarily rejectionable.”

“I don’t understand you. You don’t want to see an honest sport?”

“No.”

“WHAT?”

“The notion that sport is unfair. Some have less talent, others prefer to train harder, have a bigger lung capacity, better gear or parents that pushed them harder, or more tactical insight. The excitement of racing comes from the people that contest each other with unequal means.”

“Well those means seem VERY unequal in this Tour.”

“Can you enjoy an amazing achievement without thinking of all kinds of deception?”

“Can you enjoy a clearly suspicious achievement without trying to figure out how it was achieved?”

“You first.”

“Don’t feel like it.”

“Well neither do I.”

“OK this is weird. We are one and the same person.”

“Yeah, kinda schizo.”

“Yeah.”

“But still. It is a great rider, Nibali? He attacks, it’s a spectacle, nice humble guy. So different from Armstrong and the others. Also: this is the new cycling. Ask Maarten Ducrot, or any of the other commentators: Nibali’s wins are those of a ‘human’”

“I’m not saying it’s not a nice guy and a quality rider, but I don’t want to see the nicest guy, I want the best.”

“I didn’t know you were so strict.”

“I didn’t know you were such a naïve romantic.”

“I repeat: the achievements and wattage are ‘human’, that guy is just really well prepared. New training methods, focus, good nutrition, that sort of thing.”

“Prepared, you mean.”

“Well what do I care? As long as I get to see a great race!”

“Race? It’s a play!”

“I prefer a nice piece of fiction than a utterly boring comparison of bodily functions.”

“So you let yourself be fooled and you don’t mind?”

“Nah, not really. Nibali is like the writer of a beautiful, enticing memoir about his experiences in a concentration camp. A book that I throroughly enjoy reading. Do you still enjoy it if you happen to find out that its writer was actually born in 1953 and was never anywhere near a camp executioner? No.”

“But it’s still deception. Something’s being sold to you, while it is actually something else. That book you mention doesn’t mean anything if it’s not true.”

“…but you enjoyed it, what more do you want?”

“Will you ever become a cynic?”

“Cycling was invented to enjoy it, not to become cynic.”

“I find my own cynicism quite pleasant.”

“That’s fine, as long as you don’t become angry.”

“Promised.”

“Good”

“Can we go get a cold beer now?”

“Just one?”

“Yeah, we’re only by ourself”

“True.”

I had this conversation quite often with myself, do I really care in the grand theme of things? Meh. The only regret I have is I can't have a cold beer, ever.

[Saint Vitus]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

In 2010, the world #1 tested positive for clenbuterol.
Earlier this year, the former Olympic Gold medalist from London was banned for missing too many drug tests.

Bocce ball?

[texbike]

Originally Posted by Saint Vitus

Bocce ball?

Are you kidding??? Bocce was created in Italy. I'm sure that Michele Ferrari is involved in some way working with their top players...

Texbike