The wonders of Chinese manufacture

[forrestw]

This week I put a brand new compressed air tank into service only to find it is leaking at a pace of about .5 CFM at a weld.

This thing is nominally ASME standard / certified. The only plus side is Grainger the vendor says I can go ahead and repair the weld and they'll honor the warranty when we get some down time to return it.

Rapha and the host of bike companies that source their expensive products using cheap APAC labor can crow all they want about quality. To me this is just another instance in my (numerous) experiences of "It's so cheap we can afford the warranty costs that come with the territory".

[AngryScientist]

i hesitated to reply, but i will anyway:

i'm in the engineering field, and i specify and purchase large pieces of equipment fairly regularly. there's no doubt that you can get low-quality junk from almost any country in the world, and you can also get high-quality, great stuff from almost anywhere in the world too. it's all about good design, supply structure, oversight and QC.

sorry your tank leaked, but the above is the reality. in a global marketplace, if you're going to buy anything, it's on you to perform some due diligence, and research what kind of company you're buying a product from. blanket statements like Chinese made stuff is crap simply dont hold water anymore. you would be surprised at the quality of some of the goods that are coming out of China and the East today.

[ultraman6970]

QC problems??? Are u going to return it or something?

[67-59]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i hesitated to reply, but i will anyway:

i'm in the engineering field, and i specify and purchase large pieces of equipment fairly regularly. there's no doubt that you can get low-quality junk from almost any country in the world, and you can also get high-quality, great stuff from almost anywhere in the world too. it's all about good design, supply structure, oversight and QC.

sorry your tank leaked, but the above is the reality. in a global marketplace, if you're going to buy anything, it's on you to perform some due diligence, and research what kind of company you're buying a product from. blanket statements like Chinese made stuff is crap simply dont hold water anymore. you would be surprised at the quality of some of the goods that are coming out of China and the East today.

+1

China produces some absolute crap, and China produces some of the best stuff in the world.

The US produces some absolute crap,and the US produces some of the best stuff in the world.

I think I see a trend....

People who generalize that all Chinese products are crap remind me of the people back in the late 80s who'd laugh when you bought a Honda or Toyota because it was made in Japan...you know, 'cause they only make crap in Japan. lol

[MattTuck]

mmmmmm, Chinarello....

[jds108]

Now does anybody want to defend their IP perspective? I gots a beef with them on that front...

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by jds108

Now does anybody want to defend their IP perspective? I gots a beef with them on that front...

that's a totally different topic. and i agree with you on that front.

[DY123]

@67-59 "China produces some of the best stuff in the world"

That sounds like a pretty big generalization. Care to elaborate?

[67-59]

Originally Posted by DY123

@67-59 "China produces some of the best stuff in the world"

That sounds like a pretty big generalization. Care to elaborate?

Big generaization? Every country that has large manufacturing operatons probably produces something that's among the best in the world.

In the case of China, one of the best examples is Rapha. If you own some, you know it's as good as anything produced in Italy, Switzerland or the US. If you don't, then like others on this board, you'll assume it's crap because some of it is made in China.

[forrestw]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i hesitated to reply, but i will anyway:

i'm in the engineering field, and i specify and purchase large pieces of equipment fairly regularly. there's no doubt that you can get low-quality junk from almost any country in the world, and you can also get high-quality, great stuff from almost anywhere in the world too. it's all about good design, supply structure, oversight and QC.

sorry your tank leaked, but the above is the reality. in a global marketplace, if you're going to buy anything, it's on you to perform some due diligence, and research what kind of company you're buying a product from. blanket statements like Chinese made stuff is crap simply dont hold water anymore. you would be surprised at the quality of some of the goods that are coming out of China and the East today.

I agree on diligence and went with grainger / speedaire and ASME specification as the best choice from the vendors we work with.

Admittedly my rant above is overstated. However it matches what I've heard about quality problems with numerous other APAC built bike products. Hell, 2 weeks ago our team took delivery on uniform kits from Champion systems where all the mediums were shipped from China as smalls.

I remember the problems with western manufacturing in the 70s when Harley Davidson seemed unable to build a crankcase that didn't leak and fully agree no one has any permanent lock on quality manufacturing.

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by forrestw

I remember the problems with western manufacturing in the 70s when Harley Davidson seemed unable to build a crankcase that didn't leak

You know how hard it is to design a leak with just the right flow rate
to leave a proper puddle on the garage floor ? AMF had to find some
old retired British engineer to do it just right.

[rain dogs]

The people who are thinking critically enough to delineate between poor quality out of Asia and good quality out of Asia are also intelligent enough to realise that "Made in China" is a Euphemism.

It's a euphemism for a broken economic model which artificially deflates the cost of consumer goods. This "zero-cost-of-labour" model drives prices to subnormal levels resulting in lower quality "from almost any country in the world"

We've prioritized our model toward "cheapness" and not quality and the vast majority of businesses happily comply and reinforce this model for larger profit margins and shareholder returns.

Quality is a second or third tier priority. This idea has been perfected over millenia - finding exploitative labour which can benefit the bottom line.

We're in a funnel. A funnel of time and opportunity. Wherein the "walls" of the funnel are closing in on us as competition, exploitation and pollution increase while relatively resources, opportunity, flexibility and "stories with meaning" decrease (amongst numerous other factors)

The other day I regrettably bought a pair of jeans made in.... Lesotho! That tiny island country nested inside South Africa. Because my "Made in Canada" option has gone to Fiji. We'll never run out of countries with cheap labour sources to exploit and those cheap production/high revenue models erode quality as production is motivated by low-cost vs continuous improvement in product excellence at all levels of the supply chain.

Companies are competing for the bottom line, in a race to the bottom, and this dynamic is becoming more and more relevant and apparent over time.

Made in China is a euphemism for this system dynamic. We all know it and trying to defend these commercial practices with straw-man "quality" arguments is disingenuous.

My Humble Opinion.

[Grant McLean]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

there's no doubt that you can get low-quality junk from almost any country in the world, and you can also get high-quality, great stuff from almost anywhere in the world too. it's all about good design, supply structure, oversight and QC.

The way i characterize it is that modern manufacturing companies
will make you exactly what you pay them for. Ask for low price,
they'll make you a low price product.

-g

[tannhauser]

Originally Posted by jds108

Now does anybody want to defend their IP perspective? I gots a beef with them on that front...

Internet Protocol? Initial Public...?

Help me out.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by tannhauser

Internet Protocol? Initial Public...?

Help me out.

Intellectual property