Rivendell troubles

wolfemp · #1 01-02-2012, 11:00 AM

Like many of the small and attractive players in the bike business, Rivendell looks to be having troubles. I have no connection to them other than as a happy rider of their bikes along with others. Check this out and see if there's any late Christmas gifts to yourself...
http://www.rivbike.com/Rivendell-Sale-s/571.htm

Read Grant's comments about debt to understand my post. Not the first time, probablly not the last. No business, Serotta or Rivendell gets smaller by real choice.

Edit 1/3/12: I'm baffled by comment wondering if I have some axe to grind here? I like the product - and the contrarian position - of Rivendell and GP, received notice of the special sale, along with the commentary about financial pressures and down sizing. I never post, but thought it was worth passing on for any of similar interest or willingness to purchase.

eddief · #2 01-02-2012, 11:08 AM

...and Grant tends to share more than most about the financial ins and outs of his business. so maybe just a simple belt tightening and maybe not. regardless, he does good work, sells some good stuff, shares a unique offkilterish philosophy and i wish Riv the best in 2012.

Ken Robb · #3 01-02-2012, 12:38 PM

I won't read too much into the sale. I think they just realized that they can't do a good job if they let their inventory selection get too big. They like to support manufacturers who make stuff they like themselves. This can lead to an inventory with too many choices for a small business to manage efficiently.

Kontact · #4 01-02-2012, 01:02 PM

I don't think sale pricing stuff that's getting discontinued is much of an evil omen.

Riv continues to offer their straight gauge tubing $2000 wonder frames at full price.

ultratoad · #5 01-02-2012, 01:03 PM

Great outfit.... Stellar products and service.... Wish them the very best....

don compton · #6 01-02-2012, 01:10 PM

I am not sure how to take your comment.

Riv continues to offer their straight gauge tubing $2000 wonder frames at full price.[/QUOTE]

Charles M · #7 01-02-2012, 01:21 PM

of course this is the Serotta forum so we can twist even the most basic words...

But I think he thinks the sale is no big deal because the core products are not on sale.

A sale means squat in and of it's self.

In the paragraph above the sale though, they say they have 3 big bills coming shortly and dont have the money. That might be what the OP is refering to.

Kontact · #8 01-02-2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by don compton

I am not sure how to take your comment.

Riv continues to offer their straight gauge tubing $2000 wonder frames at full price.

[/QUOTE]
I was just being sassy. Riv doesn't say anything about their frame construction or tubing selection, many frames have mid tube lugs, and they have a reputation for being overly stiff and harsh riding (with high pressure tires). All that just seems to support the rumors that their products are made of straight gauge tubing, despite the cost.

But I should have put a

at the end of my first post. Sorry if I offended.

oldpotatoe · #9 01-02-2012, 01:43 PM

I was just being sassy. Riv doesn't say anything about their frame construction or tubing selection, many frames have mid tube lugs, and they have a reputation for being overly stiff and harsh riding (with high pressure tires). All that just seems to support the rumors that their products are made of straight gauge tubing, despite the cost.

But I should have put a

at the end of my first post. Sorry if I offended.[/QUOTE]

Not butting a tube, whether steel or titanium, doesn't mean the ride will be 'harsh' or 'stiff riding'. Butted tube is lighter, both tubes with the same OD, but hooked together the same, one isn't stiffer than the other to the point of being harsh, IMHO. Too many other things go into this equation. .9mm thruout vs .9/.7/.9 no difference in ride, as an example.

Back to the post, I think Grant feels he is providing some sort of essential public service, his company and we should feel that in his time of need, we should support this endeavor. But in reality, it's just a bike company, where cash flow is always the most important thing. Line of credit, perhaps, in winter? Not unheard of.

thwart · #10 01-02-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Riv doesn't say anything about their frame construction or tubing selection, many frames have mid tube lugs, and they have a reputation for being overly stiff and harsh riding (with high pressure tires).

Dunno... I've got a Riv Romulus, running 23 mm tires, and one of the last things I'd ever say about that frame is that it's stiff and harsh-riding. It's not very light, but that's the only 'con' I can think of...

Kontact · #11 01-02-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not butting a tube, whether steel or titanium, doesn't mean the ride will be 'harsh' or 'stiff riding'. Butted tube is lighter, both tubes with the same OD, but hooked together the same, one isn't stiffer than the other to the point of being harsh, IMHO. Too many other things go into this equation. .9mm thruout vs .9/.7/.9 no difference in ride, as an example.

I can think of a couple of steel frame builders who would disagree with this, despite it being largely true about Ti.

I'm sure Riv is feeling what all retailers are right now - winter slowdown after a bad retail year. And banks aren't handing out much credit right now.

I think it is strange to air one's finances publicly - selling lifetime warrantied products and making your business seem anything less than 100% are not really compatible.

Chance · #12 01-02-2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kontact

I can think of a couple of steel frame builders who would disagree with this, despite it being largely true about Ti.

Why would it apply to steel more than titanium?

It's hard to follow this difference when butting the center section of tube to less wall thickness reduces stiffness of tube proportionally the same for ti and steel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kontact

I think it is strange to air one's finances publicly - selling lifetime warrantied products and making your business seem anything less than 100% are not really compatible.

Companies downsize and or lay off employees all the time. It's strange that he is going into details about due payments but if we read between the lines it is not that uncommon for companies to air being in trouble.

Kontact · #13 01-02-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chance

Why would it apply to steel more than titanium?

It's hard to follow this difference when butting the center section of tube to less wall thickness reduces stiffness of tube proportionally the same for ti and steel.

I don't have an explanation for you, but I do know that almost all ti experts believe that butting has almost no effect on ride qualities in their bikes, but steel experts and riders believe that the difference even two butted tube sets of the same diameter is discernable. I'm sure someone like Tom Kellogg, who knows as much as anyone on both materials, could nail it down for you.

I imagine that the preferred diameters and material density has a lot to do with this difference. I would also guess that aluminum is less sensitive to butting as well, since it is also less dense. But really, they are all different materials with different combinations of properties, so they should feel/act different. People can feel all sorts of things that aren't easy to define with the language of engineering texts.

palincss · #14 01-02-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kontact

IPeople can feel all sorts of things that aren't easy to define with the language of engineering texts.

People can feel all sorts of things that don't have any measurable existence, too.

Kontact · #15 01-02-2012, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palincss

People can feel all sorts of things that don't have any measurable existence, too.

I'm not talking about Jesus.

Are you just arguing, or do you also think that non-butted steel feels the same as thinner tubing?