Cycling fatalities and e-bikes

[axel23]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html

"There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian."

[jkbrwn]

It should be illegal to post a paywalled article without pasting the contents... anyway. 'ebikes' in NYC are another breed. Basically glorified delivery motorbikes that ride up one way streets the wrong way, into oncoming traffic, jumping red lights everywhere. It's a food delivery bubble that doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

[Likes2ridefar]

A chart from the article. No surprise there has been an increase in more fatalities on e bikes not involving other vehicles or people.

[Seamus]

15 Deaths from Trucks. That should be the article.

Originally Posted by likes2ridefar

a chart from the article. No surprise there has been an increase in more fatalities on e bikes not involving other vehicles or people.

[5oakterrace]

I do not live in NYC any longer but my sense is NYC has tons of these ebikes. More ebikes than normal bikes?

I would be curious to see reports for the non urban areas which I am thinking is where most normal bikers ride. There are many "group rides" in urban areas

[Alistair]

E-bike deaths are replacing non-e-bike deaths. No surprise there. The total number of bike deaths (e or non-e) is up a bit, but not a huge amount (and varies greatly year to year already).

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by jkbrwn

It's a food delivery bubble that doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

From the article…

And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

From the article…

And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash

Thanks. That's rough...

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by jkbrwn

It should be illegal to post a paywalled article without pasting the contents... anyway. 'ebikes' in NYC are another breed. Basically glorified delivery motorbikes that ride up one way streets the wrong way, into oncoming traffic, jumping red lights everywhere. It's a food delivery bubble that doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

And FAST. They're all souped up eBikes. When we visited New York, those things were a true menace splitting lanes always going twice the speed limit.

[Mr. Pink]

Sorry you couldn't read the article, but, if one is to draw conclusions, it's not the food delivery guys, or, you can call them working cyclists, like cabbies are working drivers. They ride a lot, every day, so, of course, they experience more and react better. It's the newbie ebiker who is a problem, and my guess is that they aren't converted pedal powered cyclists to an ebiker, but, straight to e from not cycling for lord knows how long in their lives. And then they jump on one of these things with it's speed and weird handling in Manhattan, of all places, and, duh. A very unforgiving place for a mistake or two.
Two accidents mentioned were trucks turning right with a bike in the blind spot. Crunch. That has happened a lot over the years in Manhattan, whatever the bike. Never get in that place next to a bus or truck, but, if you do, make sure there's an exit right.

[verticaldoug]

I hate e-bikes probably as much or more than the rest of you. Here in London, I feel e-bikes are the most dangerous thing on the road.

London is a large, crowded city like NYC and it is having a decline in cycling fatalities.

London experienced a cycling commuter boom earlier than NYC due to the gov policies promoting it, and general increase in cycling post TDF success of English cyclists.

Along with the boom came increased fatalities. We had Critical Mass rides after many of the fatalities. At the time, many fatalities were from Trucks and Buses making the left turn with a newbie cyclist riding in the blind spot.

A heavy campaign was launch about cycling awareness, most trucks and buses have warning signs on the back left corner about not riding in the blind spot. etc etc. Now that London drivers have adjusted and London cyclists have improved in bike skills, things are much better.

As much as the bike infrastructure is complained about in London, the segregated super highway routes for commuting cyclists have also probably helped saved lives.

I know New Yorkers really hate the conversation about the congestion charge for Manhattan, but the congestion (ulez) charges in London have really helped over the years. Pollution is better, the roads not nearly as crowded which has the affect as drivers are not driving as angry as before.

Although, I suspect the fatalities are not really in Manhattan but in the outerboroughs where car and truck speeds can pick up.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by axel23

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html

"There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian."

With an estimated 65,000+ ebikes in NYC, 22 deaths are statistically insignificant. (Of course, for those involved, it's a tragedy.) If the number of deaths doubled from 11 to 22 it's still meaningless statistically. As in, you cannot make any meaningful statements about what happened.

If each of those ebikes is ridden once a week, you're talking about more than 3 million trips. That's a lot of traffic and hazard exposure.

I'd be looking at the faster ebikes that youngsters are riding like motorcycles, but on sidewalks, without helmets or any safety training.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

With an estimated 65,000+ ebikes in NYC, 22 deaths are statistically insignificant. (Of course, for those involved, it's a tragedy.) If the number of deaths doubled from 11 to 22 it's still meaningless statistically. As in, you cannot make any meaningful statements about what happened.

If each of those ebikes is ridden once a week, you're talking about more than 3 million trips. That's a lot of traffic and hazard exposure.

I'd be looking at the faster ebikes that youngsters are riding like motorcycles, but on sidewalks, without helmets or any safety training.

Well, it's called "Vision Zero" not "Vision Statistically Significant"

Of course you can make meaningful statements about what happened, the deaths doubled - 11 was too many and 22 is at least twice as too many. It is immediately possible to draw conclusions, create models, and start advocacy for reducing the number of deaths.

We have a nice marker for what is "statistically significant" in the bike industry from a recent events - More than a million Shimano cranksets were recalled after a very small percentage broke and (at least) 6 people were injured. Even if you 10x or 100x the injury rate, it's still a relatively insignificant value.

Cannondale recalled 10,000+ forks because a handful broke and 1 person died.

The fatal crash rate for motor vehicles in the US state of Georgia is ~1800 out of 7.8 million drivers - about a 2/3s the rate of ebike fatal crash rate of 22/65000.

More generally, Takata airbags are under broad recall - how many people have died? How many Takata airbags are in use around the world? Significant or not?

Children killed by overpowered airbags is another case study, one most of us lived through: https://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/18/u...re-blamed.html

The safety board, completing a two-year study, also said a survey found that more than half of children in automobiles are carried in the wrong seats or in children's seats that are improperly installed, or are not wearing any restraints.

Twenty-one children have been killed by passenger-side air bags, the board said, including 12 so far this year, compared with 1 in all of 1993.

Until recently, air bags other than those for the driver were relatively rare, but their numbers are rising rapidly, the board said, to about 22 million by the end of this year, and by an estimated 13 million a year thereafter.

Society, generally does not care about the product of a small number divided by a big number - but does care about the absolute value of the small number relative to their perception of those affected.

[stackie]

I'm not at all surprised.

Last week I passed a group of e bikes toward the end of my ride. Right after I passed them, the road turns up. As I near the top of the hill, there is a T intersection. The e bikes come roaring up on my right, the first one left hooking me in order to cut off the entire intersection running through a stop sign. Cross traffic does not have a stop. Mind you, this is essentially blind to his left as there is large group of shrubs and a huge tree blocking the sight line. That's a clever move there, fella.

I slow up and they all pass me. Now the road has leveled out. I now decide follow them from about 100ft back. I then see one of the last two lose control and ride off the road. He recovers back onto the road bumping his female companion. She miracuiously does not fall, but he goes off road again and crashes.

I did ask if he was ok as I rode past. He gave me a thumbs up, so I guess all was well. I'm pleased with myself that I reserved any snide comments about a motor not conferring bike handling skills.

Jon

[Buzz Killington]

I've been going to NYC in the late afternoon, leaving the Flatiron district for the Lincoln tunnel around 7:30pm. The e-bikes and food delivery guys are way out of control. All over the place, night-time visibility, and overall lack of enforced rules make anarchy. I almost hit a delivery rider, probably would have been my fault if it had actually happened. Luckily, I saw him last second. Yahoos on Citibikes, e-bikes that really are mopeds, jay walkers, it's all a recipe for chaos. Still always love NYC at night, so wahtev's.