(Rant warning) Rene Herse tires poorly designed for tubeless?

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by charliedid

This is simply not true.

Give this a listen

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/03/nerd...arbon-curtain/

I'm not talking about Specialized or Trek here.

[Wattvagen]

Originally Posted by Jan Heine

Anyhow, I appreciate the positive contributions here, and I also fully respect that not everybody will love our products.

Jan Heine
Rene Herse Cycles

Thank you for chiming in here Jan. I for one love the tires and believe the work you have done significantly changed the game for wide supple tires, and that has benefitted us all even if we dont use RH tires. Everyone else had to adapt and catch up to what you were preaching years ago.

Originally Posted by benb

The more Jan posts here the more I worry that proper engineering hasn't been done on the supple tires to ensure they're actually safe.


This stuff is supposed to be fully tested at RH before sending the order to Panaracer.. it doesn't sound like that happens..

How would you propose the tire is to be "tested" before it is manufactured?

Based on your rant above, it sounds like you dont really understand how contract manufacturing works.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

The big thing with these supple tires is to make sure they are mounted properly from the get go.

You can mount them properly then the bead will settle (stretch) then you might have to take them off again and add more rim tape so they stay sealed. Or at least that’s my experience. Good thing my SO doesn’t weight very much and the tires will be used under 40psi or I would tell her they aren’t safe to use.

Also (not directed at any one particular person)

Please stop with the just use tubes thing. In so cal / AZ if you aren’t running tubeless on your fat tires you aren’t going to make it. It’s not like WA or OR down here. You have to have tubeless period.

[MikeD]

I think RH tires should have stiffer beads. The fact that me and others are reporting that a new tire fits fine while a used one is permanently stretched out so it fits loose on the rim and is hard to air up shows there's a problem. Excessive bleeding of sealant through the casing shows another, less serious problem.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

You can mount them properly then the bead will settle (stretch) then you might have to take them off again and add more rim tape so they stay sealed. Or at least that’s my experience. Good thing my SO doesn’t weight very much and the tires will be used under 40psi or I would tell her they aren’t safe to use.

Also (not directed at any one particular person)

Please stop with the just use tubes thing. In so cal / AZ if you aren’t running tubeless on your fat tires you aren’t going to make it. It’s not like WA or OR down here. You have to have tubeless period.

Tubeless rubber for the road.
Latex is for lovin'.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Tubeless rubber for the road.
Latex is for lovin'.

In my experience skinny road tires aren’t nearly as bad but big supple tires are magnets for thorns debris pieces of wire etc...

[benb]

Originally Posted by Wattvagen

How would you propose the tire is to be "tested" before it is manufactured?

Based on your rant above, it sounds like you dont really understand how contract manufacturing works.

Do it the way properly engineered products with safety considerations are made:

Come up with a design
Try to prove the design through pre-prototype engineering methodology
Create a prototype
Test & verify the prototype in the real world
If the prototype is not safe/doesn't perform go back to step 1
Once the prototype is proven move to manufacturing

The whole outsource everything model allows entrepreneurs to skip a lot of these steps and/or not even have anyone on staff who is qualified to design/prototype/prove their design.

As long as they can source funds to pay for their initial batch they're good. And as long as they have a good marketing story the funds can be had.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by MikeD

I think RH tires should have stiffer beads. The fact that me and others are reporting that a new tire fits fine while a used one is permanently stretched out so it fits loose on the rim and is hard to air up shows there's a problem. Excessive bleeding of sealant through the casing shows another, less serious problem.

I think at this point we all know the solution is to just buy enve wheels. Apparently nothing more can be done to get the tires to work on an average peasant rim!

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

I think at this point we all know the solution is to just buy enve wheels. Apparently nothing more can be done to get the tires to work on an average peasant rim!

Not like Enve hasnt had trouble...

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/prod...g#.X8kWTihKggo

[dbnm]

https://www.enve.com/en/lp/tire-compatibility/

[benb]

Yah LOL at buying ultra expensive ENVE wheels after they've had a safety fiasco and aren't fixing it.

Who cares if it takes an extra manufacturing step not to have a sharp edge on the rim... the wheels cost an absolute fortune suck it up and fix them.

Keep buying these products and you're enabling this behavior from companies.

If we all became rational and stopped coming to the defense of these companies they'd clean up their acts.

At least we know in the case of ENVE they actually can make prototypes at HQ and test them since they don't outsource manufacturing.

It's not like RH tires come in at the bottom of the price range either. They're expensive tires.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Not like Enve hasnt had trouble...

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/prod...g#.X8kWTihKggo

I know... was just attempting a joke lol

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by benb

Do it the way properly engineered products with safety considerations are made:

That is not the Navy way, see below.

Come up with a design
Try to prove the design through pre-prototype engineering methodology
Create a prototype
Install in new ship
Test & verify the prototype in the real world
Power up new proto installed in ship, no blue smoke, good to go
If the prototype is not safe/doesn't perform go back to step 1
Nope, finish development on ship
Once the prototype is proven move to manufacturing
Go back to first install new ship, rip out, install working unit.

[benb]

That seems unfair to the Navy. They don't produce recreational products for civilians.

Time to cool off, I'm going to go for a ride on my Panaracer tires that saved a whole bunch of money vs the RH versions and have had no issues with flats or blow offs and have always seemed like really fast tires. And no one ever seems to make threads about their Panaracer tires having safety issues. Go figure.

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

You can mount them properly then the bead will settle (stretch) then you might have to take them off again and add more rim tape so they stay sealed. Or at least that’s my experience. Good thing my SO doesn’t weight very much and the tires will be used under 40psi or I would tell her they aren’t safe to use.

Also (not directed at any one particular person)

Please stop with the just use tubes thing. In so cal / AZ if you aren’t running tubeless on your fat tires you aren’t going to make it. It’s not like WA or OR down here. You have to have tubeless period.

I am not discounting your experience and believe this happened. I was simply referring to making sure the tire is seated properly from the get go and they were asking if anybody had experience with the 26” tires and older mtb rims. I have used them and they were set up with tubes.

I wholeheartedly understand the benefits of tubeless and supple tires. All of my current bikes are set up this way and aside from a small gash in one of my GK slicks I have not had a true flat(knock on wood) since going tubeless.

I understand these are expensive tires and that sometimes you end up with a bad taste in your mouth afterward when something doesn’t work properly. I do find the wider the tire the looser it feels when mounting as I recently went through this with the Juniper Ridge tires last month. Sorry for your poor experience and I am glad your SO was not hurt on your trip! Hopefully you can get the issue resolved.


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