How to search for J-bend spokes?

[dsillito]

Hi all,

I'm considering re-building a long-used (at least 25 y.o.) Corima aero tubular rear wheel (minor cracking starting around the valve hole), and am having a tough time searching for the correct spokes, in a preliminary search. The drive-side ones are bladed, J-bend spokes, but the orientation of the spoke head is turned at a right angle to the standard. Instead of the flat circle of the spoke head facing the flat part of the spoke, it faces the edge.

In searching for that kind of spoke, when I add terms like "spoke head orientation", "turned 90 degrees" etc, I just get swamped with articles about the orientation of spoke heads either inside or outside the hub flange, or standard bladed spokes that have turned sideways and need to be straightened (Incidentally, why does the internet need hundreds of articles explaining this, and how to straighten them? Is nobody in charge of a periodic cleanup/purge of the electronic dump we call the internet? )

Any tips on what these spokes are officially called, or where to source them? I suppose I may just have to go with a round cross-section if it is too much hassle. Something tells me that twisting a standard spoke that far wouldn't be good for the strength at the elbow. I haven't committed to getting a new rim and re-building. I may just tuck the hub and spokes into the overflow drawer, to be cleared out by whoever inherits that terrible job after I die.

I've included photos of the drive, and non-drive sides, in case my description was inadequate.

Thanks in advance

[oldpotatoe]

I've sent the link to the gurus at DT in Grand Junction and also to my Sapim spoke supplier to see if they have any idea. I've been building wheels for almost 40 years and I have never seen spokes like that.

I suspect that the wheel maker had a spoke manufacturer make these specifically for these wheels.

[slambers3]

I have only seen these spokes on Corima wheels (or those made under contract by them for other brands) so reaching out directly to corima may be your best bet. Worst case you could possibly just rebuild with round spokes.

[Pastashop]

If I’m understanding correctly, it’s the rim that is showing signs of failure. If the spokes have held up, why would you want to replace them?.. Or is the intent to rebuild with a new rim of a different ERD, so the old spokes won’t work?

[tellyho]

Yes, I think I'd approach this as a "can I find a rim of the same ERD" problem

[dsillito]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I've sent the link to the gurus at DT in Grand Junction and also to my Sapim spoke supplier to see if they have any idea. I've been building wheels for almost 40 years and I have never seen spokes like that.

I suspect that the wheel maker had a spoke manufacturer make these specifically for these wheels.

That is what I began to suspect after I didn't see any spokes with that configuration on any of the major brand websites. Thanks for looking into it

[dsillito]

Originally Posted by Pastashop

If I’m understanding correctly, it’s the rim that is showing signs of failure. If the spokes have held up, why would you want to replace them?.. Or is the intent to rebuild with a new rim of a different ERD, so the old spokes won’t work?

If there was an option to re-use the spokes, I certainly would, but as a previous responder noted, it is a matter of whether I can find a rim with the same ERD. I'm not sure I'd want a rim as deep as the original, to be honest, and if I went with an Al rim rather than carbon, I'd almost certainly need longer spokes. I'll have to keep all the suggestions in mind if/when the time comes. I thought I'd post the question, on the off-chance someone would chime in with "oh sure, X company makes those spokes in every size...". Not my lucky day, ha.

I wonder why that hub/spoke interface design is so rare? Seems logical, in that you can slot in wide bladed spokes, and avoid the windup tendency (I've heard about, but not experienced) while building with straight-pull spokes.

[dsillito]

Originally Posted by tellyho

Yes, I think I'd approach this as a "can I find a rim of the same ERD" problem

I'm accumulating a couple of those 'problems'

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by dsillito

I wonder why that hub/spoke interface design is so rare? Seems logical, in that you can slot in wide bladed spokes, and avoid the windup tendency (I've heard about, but not experienced) while building with straight-pull spokes.

I'd bet those spokes/flanges are more of a pain to lace. Sure, once the spokes have some tension, they'd probably stay in their slots, but as you are lacing the wheel and the spokes are still loose, what's to keep the spokes from popping out of the slots? You'd likely need some (proprietary) tool to hold the spokes in place in the slots while the wheel is being laced and tensioned.

[dsillito]

Originally Posted by slambers3

I have only seen these spokes on Corima wheels (or those made under contract by them for other brands) so reaching out directly to corima may be your best bet. Worst case you could possibly just rebuild with round spokes.

You are likely correct about that. I've contacted them in the past (about other things), and they seemed very happy to respond. I'll keep it in mind, depending which route I decide to take. Round spokes would be fine for me. I'm not racing, by any stretch of the imagination. I'm often using mismatched front and rear wheels at the best of times

[dsillito]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'd bet those spokes/flanges are more of a pain to lace. Sure, once the spokes have some tension, they'd probably stay in their slots, but as you are lacing the wheel and the spokes are still loose, what's to keep the spokes from popping out of the slots? You'd likely need some (proprietary) tool to hold the spokes in place in the slots while the wheel is being laced and tensioned.

I hadn't considered that, but can totally see it. I'd probably jam a wad of plasticine over every spoke head as I went along. Or maybe a blob of hot glue, which could be popped off afterwards, after some tension was applied. Fine for an afternoon of DIY, but you'd definitely want a more dedicated solution for production.

[Wunder]

Is there something magical about this hub that makes you want to save it? You're looking to rebuild with different spokes and a different rim anyway. I'd likely just ditch the hub and get something more standard.

[dsillito]

Originally Posted by Wunder

Is there something magical about this hub that makes you want to save it? You're looking to rebuild with different spokes and a different rim anyway. I'd likely just ditch the hub and get something more standard.

Nothing magical, but I like to use things until they fall apart, as a general principle. The bearings are still very smooth, and I have both Shimano and Campy freehub bodies for it, and it is very easy to swap between them, depending on what bike I use them on. It would be no different than a more standard hub, if round cross-section spokes are used. Come to think of it...I could use standard bladed spokes, but they would just be at 90 degrees to the direction of travel, like a steamboat paddle-wheel. I would say I had to build the wheel like that to intentionally slow myself down, since I'm so fast. Nobody would believe me, but I could say it anyway I wonder if they would sound different?