Mountain lion 'out for blood' killed after attacking bikers [Archive]

Johny

01-09-2004, 10:37 AM

Find some info from http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html

General Advice About Lion Encounters

The general advice to avoid being eaten by a mountain lion is to travel in groups. If you encounter a mountain lion by yourself or with your children, stop, make yourself look as big as possible, and pick up small children and put them on your shoulders to make you appear even larger. Aggressively defend your position. The idea is to deter their attack by making them think that it isn't going to be easy for them. Pick up a branch or a rock to help fight them if needed. They are just big kitty-cats, so you don't want to appear as smaller prey to them. In particular, running away makes them think you are prey, and will encourage an attack. Yell for help by screaming cougar! or something similarly specific rather than just help!.

Do not take your dog with you into the wilderness, if you want to reduce your chances of a cougar attack. According to Banff National Park Chief Warden Ian Syme, "Many people like to take a dog along in the wilderness because it gives them a sense of security. They feel they will be protected from cougars. But that's not the case. Dogs are an attractant in most cases."

However, you may not have to worry about taking action to prevent an attack, since mountain lions ordinarily either lie hidden, waiting for prey to approach beneath them, or approach unseen, and then attack and kill by a bite to the back of the neck that severs the spinal cord. This was the modus operandi for the attack on Barbara Schoener.

Tom

01-09-2004, 10:39 AM

I was in Glacier Park years ago. While I was there, a family of cats was wandering around a campground making people really nervous. Apparently cats typically attack smaller people, generally from behind. (Look behind you if you have to go poo in the woods.) If you're going to get out of it OK you need to be very aggressive, fight back and try to look big. Sometimes they run away. Bears, on the other hand, you need to negotiate with. Fighting them is generally a bad idea.

Or so they told us. The reason I blather on about it is that my wife was terrified of the cats and had no problem with hiking through grizzly country at grizzly Happy Hour. I was exactly the opposite. It was a good insight into how we approach things. You see, she put the ham sandwiches in my pack...

JohnS

01-09-2004, 10:44 AM

With Brown (Grizzly) Bears, you should roll up into a fetal position. With smaller Black Bears, the recommended course is to fight back. They are much smaller and may decide to go get an easier meal. It's safer to go in groups because than you just have to be faster than one other member to avoid being eaten. :)

Johny

01-09-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by JohnS
... It's safer to go in groups because than you just have to be faster than one other member to avoid being eaten. :)

JohnS,

This is exactly the joke I (when I was a tour giude) liked to tell peope what to do when encountering a bear. Just make sure you go with people who do not outrun you...

Also, some people told me that the bears have shorter fore limbs than hind ones; therefore, they run faster uphills than downhills... so run downhills when you are chased by a bear. However, I never buy this idea. You have no way to run faster than a bear...

"With Brown (Grizzly) Bears, you should roll up into a fetal position." This is probably not true, since bears eat everything dead or alive. Come on. Give yourself a chance. Fight with dignity. :)

Richard

01-09-2004, 11:04 AM

This may be an old wives tale, but I recall reading an article (many years ago) that native populations would wear masks on the back of their heads to as a deterrent to lion attacks as it confused the cat (since as was pointed out they like to attack from the rear). Of course, this could be flawed memory of a Tarzan move.

JohnS

01-09-2004, 11:12 AM

Johny- If I had even a 4" knife, (preferably a 4" .44 Mag) I would fight back, but I'm sure that I am in the minority on this forum.

Ozz

01-09-2004, 11:28 AM

Bears are usually only dangerous if you surprise them, or if you come across a sow and her cubs. REI actually sells a product called "bear bells" that you strap on your pack and jingle while you walk - theory being it will warn bears of your approach. I bought one as a toy for my son for Xmas. It is basically a jingle-bell with a velcro strap.

Cats on the other hand will stalk you. There is usually one or two stories each winter of mountain lions stalking or attacking a child in the communities close to the mountains here in Seattle. There was just a story a month or so ago about a mountain lion stalking or attacking a child in Maple Valley - which is only about 30 minutes from downtown Seattle. I believe the family dog came to the rescue and scared the cat away

Loss of habitat and human intrusion into wild areas will only make these occurences more frequent. Unfortunately, the mountain lion usually ends up paying a higher price for these events.

Since this trend is unlikely to change, the best advice is to travel in groups, talk and make noise while you hike, carry pepper spray (sorry JohnS, I don't think a big knife will cut it against a big cat), and keep an eye on your children. Having a couple big dogs around doesn't hurt either.

I hope the cyclist will be okay, and she is lucky there was a friend with her to help out.

M_A_Martin

01-09-2004, 11:44 AM

"An average of 14 cougar attacks per year on people in the entire U.S." That's comforting now that they're finding evidence of big cats in northern Michigan.

I hope they got the right cat...and identified the first victim.

I always carry pepper spray in a jersey pocket when riding road or trail. I have to say with all the miles I've hiked I've had more unpleasant encounters on a bike with humans and domestic dogs than on foot with wildlife. Except for the moose that appeared to be attracted to my hiking buddy. "He's all yours honey!"

JohnS

01-09-2004, 11:47 AM

Ozz, I would prefer pepper spray, and I did say "at least a knife". I didn't want to start that old gun thread again. The problem isn't only the loss of habitat, but also the banning of hunting. This has led to two results. One, the cats have lost their fear of humans. Secondly, the increased population of cats has led to their increasing their range, since they are solitary creatures.

Kevan

01-09-2004, 11:53 AM

Masks on the back of the head ward off tiger attacks.

Bears can outrun you going up or down hill.

Black bears are generally regarded as more dangerous than grizzlies, despite their smaller size and weaponry. I believe the experts came to this conclusion simply because there is more human interaction with these animals than with their bigger cousins. Here's a big warning: regadless of brown or black, you don't want to see cubs or get near to them. Mom packs a serious attitude.

Lion attacks should be dealt with just as described here. Look big, buddy together, don't run, scream, protect your head (keep that helmet on!!) and fight like bloody hell if attacked!

Use your bike as a shield or weapon.

I learned all this because I rode the NY subways. The tactics are the same regardless.

BigMac

01-09-2004, 12:01 PM

Sorry JohnS, you're kidding yourself. You'd be in shock, unconscience or dead by the time you'd be able to reach for a knife or gun if attacked by a big cat. Like Ozz says, they stalk their prey and if you are mistaken as prey, well unfortunately that's your misfortune.

Like a previous poster noted, I too have seen a fair share of cats in wild, mostly in Ca, but in every instance they almost immediately disappear into brush having identified me as human -- imagine that ;). I'll be interested to see if the cat Rangers actually killed is the same cat that attacked in these 2 tragic instances and if an autopsy reveals any malady with animal. I suspect it's simply a young male (per reports it's a 1 or 2 year old male and young cats generally stay with mother for 2 years) that recently was weened by its mama and never properly learned hunting and prey -- perhaps its mother was injured or killed? No matter the reason, mountain lions are located throughout much of western US yet their interaction with humans is extremely rare despite our continued insurgence into their domain.

If for some unknown reason you were to find yourself facing off with a cat, act big with arms extended upward and grab your kids lifting them to at least your head level. Make noise as well. This is true of almost any confrontation with a mammal in wild. Another method Rangers have told me of that I doubt I would have courage to try; stand ground and urinate on ground in front of you..heck this might be an involuntary response in some cases. With cats as well as wolves or coyotes, one can determine alot by the animals' tail position. An elevated tail is a sign of aggression and one should try to look large, make lots of noise. If animals tail is drooped, particularly between legs, it is suggested you should actually take a slow step toward animal forcing animal to retreat. I honestly don't know that I would have courage for such an act but one never knows how one were to act until they face such a situation. This young lady attempting to save her companion was extraordinarily courageous.

Please JohnS, take your guns and have your fun at a firing range or whereever else you can legally use such items, but leave them locked at home before venturing into wilderness. You don't want or need the fine and jail time and your fellow hikers, bikers, joggers and outdoor enthusiasts don't want or need the added danger of some yahoo armed on the trails.

Ride on!

Tom

01-09-2004, 12:10 PM

According to my brother and his wife, who spent many summers working in Denali Park, you can tell grizzly bear scat by looking for the bells in it.

Seriously, not surprising the animal gives you the best average. Animals don't typically like to eat humans because we taste terrible.

JohnS

01-09-2004, 12:14 PM

Big Mac, unlike the "enlightened" state of CA, MI (and most other states) allows properly licensed civilians to carry a firearm legally. Just because you are ignorant of firearms and their use, not everyone is. I am not a yahoo. I have shot competitively on the national level. I am not an ex NFL lineman, or whatever you were, and am not a large individual

BumbleBeeDave

01-09-2004, 12:19 PM

. . . to the rules of whatever "park" I am in, if I am riding there and there is a bona fide cat or bear danger, then I will make it a point to pack at least some chemical heat. I'd rather be alive and in cuffs than, well, you know . . .

BBDave

BigMac

01-09-2004, 12:23 PM

Kevan:

I like the subway analogy. Everytime I travel to NY I try to find time or opportunity to ride the subway, I still have yet to do it and I've been to NY on at least 200 occasions. It's one of those 'gotta do it' testosterone driven things. I'll be there first week of February so maybe that will be the time for my adventure.

I'm wondering where you heard or read black bears are more aggressive than Grizzley's. I've see or run into at least 100 black bears while hiking in Sierra's, in every instance they have turned and run. I've even had one instance at about 2AM on the John Muir Trail where a small black bear was up in tree attempting to get our food bag which was suspended 30-40' in air from a tree branch. We heard it climbing the tree and cautiously attempting to venture out on a limb from which the bag was hanging. We emerged from tent and began yelling at bear, the damn beast almost fell as he scurried down tree, when he did get down, he immediately ran for bushes. Of course we were pretty aggressive as we were at least 3 days from any civilization for restocking supplies if the beast had actually gotten our food.

I've only seen a few Grizzley's in person, all from long distances in BC and AK, but have heard many stories of their aggression. I have had a couple run-ins with Polar bears and Kodiak bears in AK, those things are REALLY nasty! A Polar bear charged us up at Prudoe Bay from over 1/4 mile distance with us on motorcycles. Yes, we twisted a little harder on throttle when the bear got to within 100 yds or so...he was really moving!. No cubs or food in sight, he just apparently did not want us near him. The Kodiak bear incident was while kayaking in AK where we almost came ashore, a huge bear emerged from forest on to beach. We immediately turned back but the bear litterally stalked us for about an hour just walking along the shoreline while we continued paddling hoping he would leave us alone and allow us to come ashore. Needless to say, we were not able to sleep that night and broke camp very early the next morning, w/o incident. Given a choice -- not much of one admittedly -- Id take a black bear confrontation long before any other North American bear.

Ride on!

Redturbo

01-09-2004, 12:33 PM

We have a place in MT. ,100 miles SW from our door step to Glasier Park, When ever the kids and I go hiking I a have a .44 mag. Its just smart in bear country.

turbo

M_A_Martin

01-09-2004, 12:36 PM

Ah Big Mac, there was food in sight for the Polar Bear. You.

Tom

01-09-2004, 12:38 PM

a .357 is better than a .44 magnum in bear country because the .44 makes him mad, while the .357 just tickles and you can run away while it's still giggling.

BigMac

01-09-2004, 12:39 PM

JohnS:

It is infact illegal to have any firearms on most federal lands, including National Parks and National Monuments. Has nothing to do with CA. Congratulations on your competitive shooting skills, that however has nothing to do with public safety. If you carry a gun into a National Park it is a felony, a federal offense punishable by mandatory prison and a large fine. If you don't like it, write your Senator.

Ride on!

JohnS

01-09-2004, 12:41 PM

For those who said that since cats attack from behind, defense is futile, try the below quiz:
If she had her choice, do you think the uninjured mtn biker would rather-
A. spray the cat
B. shoot the cat
C. play tug of war with her friend's nearly lifeless body.

shazer

01-09-2004, 12:51 PM

A lot of these animals are rabid. There have been several bobcat attacks to pets and humans here in Tucson this week, and so far one is known to be rabid. We've had bobcats drinking out of our pool and bringing their cubs for the last three years and we live in the city proper. We are always vigilent when we let our dog out!

The drought out here in the west has forced the wildlife to come into our urban areas because their regular watering holes have dried up and the wildfires have destroyed their habitats. This forces all wildlife to come in closer contact with each other, therefore the rabies cases tend to rise. Generally, most wildlife have a natural fear of us, but rabies completely changes the equation and makes them unpredictable in their behavior.

I deal with pets everyday that have had encounters with wildlife here and rabies exposure is always a concern. When my wife and I ride mt. bikes in bear country, we hang cowbells from our seats to keep the bears away, but I'm always keeping my eyes open and alert. I'm sure the hikers hate us making all that noise, but I'm more worried about a bear's rath than any hiker unhappy with us spoiling their serenity.

shazer

Moveitfred

01-09-2004, 12:53 PM

Although an east coast citizen now, that lion attack hit close to home for me as a former OC resident. In fact my wife's parents live right up against those hills, and I ride those trails every year on our return trips to visit.

As some of you have pointed out, in most cases any kind of weapon in your jersey pocket will do no good with lions. They are programmed to bring down human-sized deer quickly by attacking from behind with a powerful bite to the back of the head or neck, crushing brains or spinal cords. Of course horrible news for humans, but quite normal and efficient in the wild.

However if your buddy has been attacked and is being dragged off--as what happened in this case from what I gather--a knife might do some good. But, in that situation, will you remember you have it in your back pocket?

In the end, I'll still be more comfortable hiking and riding through the hills of CA than I will ever be riding the subway in NY!

Kevan

01-09-2004, 12:56 PM

Bigmac,

As my sloppy first draft tried to detail, Black bears are considered more dangerouse simply because of the frequency of interaction they have with humans.

Polar bears probably would be seated at the head of the table, with plenty of Black bears taking the side chairs and down on the other end, a Grizzly.

Why is this? Black bears are used to humans. They live and eat amongst us. While generally timid, they raid our garbage cans, eat out bird feeders (happened to me here is Chappaqua NY, no less), and generally live off the scraps of mankind. Humans are idiots mostly, so they'll walk out on their back decks and start feeding Blacks bread and other staples. Here Yogi! Come and get it! Isn't he cute! If the bear doesn't like the speed in which he's being feed he might take matters into his own paws. Mistakenly surprise this beast and he might just take a defensive swipe at you.

Polar bears don't get to Chappaqua to often, but those folks in the town of Churchill, near Hudson's Bay, have me convinced that a screen door ain't holding back these pests.

Grizzlies, like our polar friend, generally live in remoter areas of the country so their human contact is less than that of the Black's, thus fewer altercations. Basically, the question of black bears versus brown being more dangerous is a lie using statistics. I think too the grizzlies that do have frequent interaction, like at Yellowstone, are closely watched by the authorities and moved before trouble generally starts. I'm guessing here, that further north, Brown bears associate humans with hunting and guns and what had happened to their cousin Ralph last hunting season, so they keep to themselves. Generally.

Now if you want to know a really safe bear, I know of one that burrows in the DC area. He's sandy colored. Please don't feed him tho. He's trying diet.

JohnS

01-09-2004, 01:04 PM

Big Mac-For one thing, you don't advertise that you are armed. Two, I said gun OR spray. Three, like BBDave said, I'd rather be alive and able to explain it to a judge, than giving six people hernias when they carry my casket.:(

Tom

01-09-2004, 01:05 PM

That's what the sign said in Glacier - advising us to use our heads on the trails. It's a fine philosophy, in my personal opinion, with broader application than one might think.

To address this question, though, the animals were there first. If I'm visiting their place and they decide to kill me then it's just my bad luck, eh? If they show up on my front lawn and I'm bored, well, I might put out a feeder or I might attack.

Moveitfred

01-09-2004, 01:09 PM

And for you gun hobbists...

Heck yeah I'd want to shoot the cat too if my friend was being attacked. But I can't help thinking, This ain't the movies. Consider the situation: really powerful animal that is intimately comfortable in this terrain of dense, dry plants, dirt, and dust. It's dragging off your buddy fast through this stuff. I'm not sure I'm going to get a clear shot.

I'm thinking the knife is the weapon of choice. I'm going to run and pounce right back on that cat and stab away! Gruesome, huh?

Well, it's about 10 degrees outside here on the east coast today. Going to go ride my trainer in the basement. No big cats in the rafters that I know about anyway....

JohnS

01-09-2004, 01:11 PM

Tom, you need to change your picture to a sheep. We're not advocating killing everything, but don't you have the instinct of self-preservation?

Kevan

01-09-2004, 01:13 PM

A year or two back there was a story about some guy who grabbed the cat's tail, jumped on the animal's back in order to save a pet (I think!) The cat was so freaked, it bolted.

oracle

01-09-2004, 01:25 PM

i side with the animals here. we're putting ourselves in their domain, and thereby reducing our carefully crafted status at the top of the food chain.

i have been a climber and wilderness travelller for over 25 yrs. and in that time, have had my share of encounters with wild animals of many different varieties. this includes an attack on my person, by a cougar, which i repelled with the ski pole that i was using as a walking stick.

as suburbia extends ever farther into to peripheral areas of wilderness, or in most cases unsettled land, human-animal encounters are on the rise.

most urban and sub-urban dwellers not familiar with wilderness travel or for that matter the wilderness, are seldom equipped to deal with many of the emergency situations which can occurr on even the seemingly most routine mountain bike ride or trail run, and this of course includes animal encounters. venturing into the wild is always serious business, quite the opposite of the 'no fear' mentality which seems to have been perpetuated by the industries promoting their outdoor toys for grown up kids. always go into the wild with full awareness that you could be eaten.

the oracle

Tom

01-09-2004, 01:34 PM

That's exactly why it's fun to go there. If I want to test my nerve, I really want to test my nerve. No parachute.

M_A_Martin

01-09-2004, 03:40 PM

My friends all laugh, but I usually have basic survival gear with me on even a local trail or road. Even if you have a cell phone ambulances take time to show up.

If you're where you might need it, carry it. If you're going to carry it, know how to use it.

Pepper spray is just a extra weight unless you've taken it out and learned how to be proficient with it.

And who says we're top of the food chain? Only with tools. Take the tools away and we're a bite or two down the list.

Tom

01-09-2004, 03:42 PM

No disrespect for a serious subject intended, but it's worse than we thought:

www.shawnbehrens.de/ kilsheep/photo.htm

oracle

01-09-2004, 03:48 PM

M A,

we are at the top of the food chain, by hook or by crook, that's the way it is- but unlike scary creatures with fangs and claws, we used our brains to achieve this status.

taken outside of our unban milieu, we encounter a vastly different set of forces at work, hence my reference to "our carefully crafted status" at the top of the food chain.

oracle

BumbleBeeDave

01-09-2004, 04:37 PM

. . . Well, now I know why the KeyBank ATM's keep freezing up. Any other killer animals you have run across in your demented wanderings while on the clock?

BBDave

JohnS

01-09-2004, 04:42 PM

MA is right. We are only at the top of the food chain because of our tools. We used our brains to make them. If we leave them at home, we're no longer using our brains. :)

Byron

01-10-2004, 09:09 AM

Interesting set of responses. Seems like interaction between people and big cats is on the increase. Big issue in neighboring Oregon where use of dogs in hunting them is now outlawed. Reader's Digest carried the article about the Colorado incidents. Have not had whole lot of experience with big cats or bears, but some. Spent many years working for U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management in some pretty wild and remote sections of the country. Saw one mountain lion and quite a few bears. Spent most of several nights awake listening to cat screams and keeping bears out of camp (they liked our food). The lion incident was unique. Being a distance runner, I would spend some of the evening hours running roads and trails in the areas we worked. One evening upon return, I rounded a curve in the road and ran up on the lion. At about 50 feet distance, we stared at each other for 5 to 10 seconds. I thought that our stand off had been long enough, so I stooped down for a rock, threw it and yelled. He turned and ran and all I saw was dust after that. He had been following my ascending tracks for about a mile. Pretty animal. Every situation carries its own set of circumstances, but generally with cats it is different from bears. FIGHT!. Most often, they are hunting for food, and if you don't fight, you will be their next meal. Notice the weight of the cat in the California incident. It was 110 lbs. I weigh in at 170. Sure, he has some formitable weapons in claws, teeth, speed, and strength, but there have been many accounts where people have overcome mountain lions. Here in Walla Walla, we are having a real winter with over a foot of good snow on the ground. Several evenings, I have been out cross country skiing with my two Labradors. The first night, I thought, what if a lion has come down out of the mountains and is in the area and you are out here away from town. First he would go for one of the dogs and it would be quick. There is no fight in these two. If attacked, my first reaction would be used ski poles - sink the tip into him wherever you can. Not once, but many times. Use skis, if you can get them off in time. Keep something between him and me or my pets and make myself so mean and awful that he decides to go elsewhere. Takes a proper frame of mind. Fear will be there, but should have no place in actions. This is survival.

JohnS

01-11-2004, 02:24 PM

A few responders here have stated that they'd rather take their chances with a cat or bear rather than spray it. That's bad for both of you. Bad for you because you're dead, and bad for the animal because he has to be hunted down and destroyed. If you spray it, you live and he hopefully will learn a lesson and go pick on a fat deer the next time he's hungry.

jerk

01-11-2004, 03:42 PM

sorry guys but the jerk has to agree with the big mac man on this one. guns have no place in our national parks or in any other area where there are large amounts of hikers and bikers. a cougar attack is an exceedingly rare event. a cougar attack that could be averted by a hand gun use is even rarer. hand guns are pretty stupid in my opinion. i have owned and continue to own shot guns for bird hunting and have no problem with any of you morons owning any sort of gun or weapon you want. (you guys think belgians and italians make nice bikes you should see the shotguns they make!) for all the jerk cares you can keep an m1 tank in your basement. just don't go using it near me.

part of the jerk thinks that if you play with the bull you get the horns. sopmetimes bears eat people. so what. sometimes people eat bears. it's a risk you take that isn't lessoned any by bringing a useless penis extension into the woods.

Redturbo

01-11-2004, 04:03 PM

You talk about old world artisans, the finest shotguns in the world come from across the pond. I'll take the english on this one.

turbo/moron

Ozz

01-11-2004, 06:07 PM

English shotguns - Purdey and Holland & Holland

True works of art. If you think Serotta's are expensive, check these out!

But I digress....this discussion is for other forums.

JohnS

01-11-2004, 07:50 PM

I can hear your wife telling your kids. "Daddy won't be home tonight, or ever again because he didn't believe it was right to fight back when the bear attacked him. He was smart enough to get life insurance but too stupid to do something so he wouldn't need it".

csm

01-12-2004, 05:20 PM

there are exceptions to the no weapons on federal lands. I wonder how many people would honestly think they would not fight off a wild animal if they were able to. I for one do not have a problem carrying a concealed weapon in bear territory. in fact, when backpacking, I do. in the east, we have predators of all sorts, including the 2-legged variety. my wife sat in on the trial of the whack job who killed a couple on the appalachian trail near duncannon, pa. let's just say it was not pleasant. this animal did things to prolong the suffering. most of the state police investigators said it was the worst crime scene they had ever encountered. the perp got the death penalty but that is never quick enough. it is currently pending appeals.

oracle

01-12-2004, 06:06 PM

the exceptions to the no-guns on federal land would be in the national forests, their wilderness ares, and on BLM lands.

oracle

Keith A

01-13-2004, 07:32 AM

Here's a little new from CyclingNews today...

Mountain lion victim remembered

Survivor recovering well

Friends and neighbours of Mark Reynolds, the 35 year old masters expert mountain biker who was killed by a mountain lion last week in Orange County, USA, held a service over the weekend in his memory. Reynolds was mauled to death by the lion, which it is thought attacked another cyclist, Anne Hjelle, who is now recovering in hospital. Hjelle remains in Mission Hospital Regional Medical Center, Mission Viejo, but her condition has been upgraded to fair.

Shortly after the attack, a two year old, 50 kg mountain lion was shot and killed by authorities after it was found near Reynolds' body. A necropsy is being performed on the lion to determine whether it was responsible for Reynolds' death.

Max

01-14-2004, 02:14 AM

This attack happened a couple miles from my home. It's not uncommon to see Bob Cats around here, I just saw a cub on the next street over. This area has in the last ten years has become very built up around the mountains, and a lot of the wild life here has become trap by the development. I use to run the trails around here, but I don't do it any more, because I have runned upon Bob Cats before, and they move uncommonly fast. You feel like your moving in slow motion compare to them, and you are. There is also a lot of rattle snakes around here too, but with them you have some warning. So for right now, I think I'll stick with my road bike.

Kevan

01-14-2004, 06:48 AM

The words out that the rattlers are now stashing their rattlers in some parts of the country. Seems the loud boys were being picked off by snake hunters, leaving the quiet ones to breed more quiet ones. Serves us right.

oracle

01-14-2004, 05:55 PM

I'd rather kill a man than a snake. Not because I love snakes or hate men. It is a question, rather, of proportion.

oracle

Keith A

01-15-2004, 08:54 AM

From CylcingNews...

Memorial Fund for fatality in Mountain Lion Attack

A memorial fund has been set up for Mark Reynolds, the mountain biker who was killed on January 8 after being attacked by a mountain lion. During his life, Mark almost single handedly managed a Children's First Bicycle program in which he would raise money to buy less privileged children bicycles. Friends are asking for donations for the Mark J. Reynolds Memorial "Children's First Bicycle Fund" to continue his work, and guarantee that 100 percent of the money raised will be placed into a not-for-profit fund set up for Children's First Bicycle Fund.

To donate to the fund click here (http://www.bikereg.com/Races/register.asp?EventID=1232), or send a cheque to:

Mark J. Reynolds Memorial "Children's First Bike Fund"
Address: OMS Sports
Attn: Mark J. Reynolds Memorial "Children's First Bike Fund"
2300 E. Katella Ave., Ste. 430
Anaheim, CA 92806, USA