Geez, someday i won't be qualified to work on this crap

[AgilisMerlin]

:crap:

this is like sitting in a meeting at work and slowly turning my head side to side. :no:

fists clenched and shaking under the table. Smile on Face :D

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4672/imagen031fr2uw2.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6637/imagen032rq1us4.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1143/imagen033kz2fs6.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2031/imagen034xf4co7.jpg


amerliN

[Lanternrouge]

Zap for the 21st Centurry :banana:

Are those pictures from Europe or the TOC?

[AgilisMerlin]

my other hangout


http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27155



amerliN

[yeehawfactor]

Gross

[Steelhead]

No thank you.

[mosca]

There is something wrong when a person can cross huge mountain ranges under their own power, but needs a battery to shift gears. Personally, I always feel a slight sense of guilt for having even a battery operated computer on my bike - seems like cheating somehow...

[Grant McLean]

i can see at least three things that shouldn't be on
a pro bike, and that's not even counting that ugly battery....


g

[David Kirk]

Please don't take this the wrong way.....I am NOT saying this new electric stuff is good or bad..............But I think it's important to remember that we all benefit from "progress".

The quick release skewer -
The derailuer -
The clincher tire -
High pressure tires -
The list is endless................all of these things were looked at with suspicion and derision when they were new.

Maybe this stuff will be the new thing and maybe it won't. But it being new and different shouldn't be the reason it fails.

Dave

[jcmuellner]

Never ceases to amaze me that people can take a perfectly simple machine and make it overly complex...often to the point of absurdity. When my bike gets as un-maintainable as a new car I may take up hiking. But then the boots would probably have GPS chips in them...

Jon

[RPS]

Maybe a future version will be wireless.

[merckx]

Do you think that it will be available for downtube shifters?

[pdxmech13]

I'm ready for the inevitable and really don't care if its electronic or not. I can fully say that over the last 15 years every new group from the big 2 have been good forward progess.

There is something wrong when a person can cross huge mountain ranges under their own power, but needs a battery to shift gears.

As for this comment maybe the extra effort that it takes to shift a bike could allow them not to juice themselves

[Grant McLean]

Never ceases to amaze me that people can take a perfectly simple machine and make it overly complex...often to the point of absurdity. When my bike gets as un-maintainable as a new car I may take up hiking. But then the boots would probably have GPS chips in them...

Jon

Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
-Albert Einstein

[BBB]

Never ceases to amaze me that people can take a perfectly simple machine and make it overly complex...often to the point of absurdity. When my bike gets as un-maintainable as a new car I may take up hiking. But then the boots would probably have GPS chips in them...

Jon

The GPS boots might help eliminate some of the problems if you get lost climbing Mt Hood with your pooch (see other thread). If you GPS'ed the dog, would it be called Mr Chips?

That aside, is an electronic shifting system going to result in a net benefit or is it just a marketing gimmick to sell more product?

[Elefantino]

Please don't take this the wrong way.....I am NOT saying this new electric stuff is good or bad..............But I think it's important to remember that we all benefit from "progress".

The quick release skewer -
The derailuer -
The clincher tire -
High pressure tires -
The list is endless................all of these things were looked at with suspicion and derision when they were new.

Maybe this stuff will be the new thing and maybe it won't. But it being new and different shouldn't be the reason it fails.

Dave

+1.

PS: This is my 1,000th post!

[Grant McLean]

resistance is futile...




g

[thosmm]

I think Mavic did this ten years or so ago. IIRC, their stuff at least looked better.

[atmo]

here's where you can buy that stuff now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtPk5IUbdH0) atmo.

[mflaherty37]

I like

[Grant McLean]

here's where you can buy that stuff now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtPk5IUbdH0) atmo.



Elaine: Oh god this looks terrible.

Jerry: Did you shift it?

Elaine: No.

Jerry: You gotta shift it!

Elaine: No. I'm sick of shifting. You've got to shift everything.

Jerry picks it up and shifts it gently.

Jerry: Yeah, that's a real nuisance. This is killing me.


:)


g

[Louis]

Please don't take this the wrong way.....I am NOT saying this new electric stuff is good or bad..............But I think it's important to remember that we all benefit from "progress".

Come on Dave, 'fess up for those who haven't seen your bike...

You guys should have seen DK during the GdB a while back - almost as bad as Picard when he was taken over by the Borg!

[sailorboy]

This looks like something from my son's Wallace and Grommit collection of short movies about all their wacky inventions. Make it claymation and it might be funny.

[RIHans]

No Comment.

[RIHans]

1000 posts on the board!

[ergott]

Time has a way of sorting out the crap. I would like to see it in action when it's available. Don't mean I'll own it.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . as to why they would be running developmental versions like this--assumed to be heavy and clunky--during professional competition. Seems like the last place they would want to add extra weight to the bike. They can add all this cr@p to the bike and still be knocking on the door of the UCI minimum weight regs? If that's true, it says a lot about component and frame (tubing) design, but it does nothing to address the practicality--or lack of it--in these new ideas.

The whole reason I admire my bike and love cycling is the simplicity of it--the effort, the beauty of that simplicity, and the simplicity of the bike!

But I guess this is the same as every other thing we "need" nowadays. The consumers are trained to salivate like Pavlov's dogs over just about anything as long as it's "new." They will finish developing this "improvement" and they will sell plenty simply because it IS "new."

Of course, the upside of this is that you will see plenty of mechanical parts on eBay for great prices! . . . AND complete bikes at screamer prices from all those rich folks who'd rather just buy another bike than wait a week while their LBS puts all the new parts on their old frame! :rolleyes:

BBD

[stevep]

they have to test it if they hope to sell it.
i tried the mavic stuff once and it was truly a joke.
( i know there are a few out there who still use it and love it better than your children, but )
we'll see i say.
no more.

grant,
wanna bet some cash that if shimano does it campy also will in, say, 4 years?
come-on, lay some $$$ down.
ps. no canadian dollars for me... they are somewhat more worthless that us currency.
how about the bet in euros? or gold maybe?
5 euros that campy will have electric by 2010 model year?

if i win i can buy a spare battery for my new shift lever... if you win you can buy a few new campy cables... how quaint.

[jeh]

:crap:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2031/imagen034xf4co7.jpg


I'll be down for a pair when you can look at porn on the little screen deal-y. version 2 maybe. Ultimate edition.

-j

[Grant McLean]

grant,
wanna bet some cash that if shimano does it campy also will in, say, 4 years?
come-on, lay some $$$ down.


Mike: You shouldn't be sorry, you're a winner. I'm the f*#king loser. I'm the one who should be sorry.
Trent: Baby don't talk that way.
Mike: Can we just go, please, can we go?
Trent: Baby look at me, look at me. You're money, and you know what else? You're a big winner tonight.
Mike: I want to leave.
Trent: You're a big winner. I'm gonna ask you a simple question and I want you to listen to me: who's the big winner here tonight at the casino? Huh? Mikey, that's who. Mikey's the big winner. Mikey wins.


g

(swingers)

[BdaGhisallo]

Campy have already been testing their electronic drivetrain. In fact, they tested in public before Shimano did. If you want to read about it check this out:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/news/04-05

and

http://www.campyonly.com/rumors/new_electronic_record.html

[stevep]

its too easy to shift these days.
bring me back to the day when you could go on a 30 mile ride and never touch the shifter..." yeah, never left the 42-17 today...hadda stand up a couple times..."
like ti designs world now. ( he just thinks its a fixed gear..in reality he cant find the shift lever since its not on his down tube- no lie )
nowadays i can shift 3 times in my own driveway..too easy i say.
bring back shiite that works terrible...make there be a price to pay for shifting. when men were men and tt was 5'6"...
next thing they'll hook the damn thing up to a hr monitor and you'll be out there arguing with the thing..
you.." i dont wanna shift right now...i wanna stand up for a few minutes"
hr monitor replies..." no, you have to shift now...its programmed in...if you dont wanna you have to reprogram the computer...will take 3 hours..haha go screw yrself."
you and the hr monitor fighting on the side of the road...
picture it...could happen...

[Archibald]

. . . as to why they would be running developmental versions like this--assumed to be heavy and clunky--during professional competition. Seems like the last place they would want to add extra weight to the bike.
BBD
Because weight don't matter as much as we like to think it does. That's not the royal "we" either. I'm talking about the proletariat.

:banana:

[stevep]

Campy have already been testing their electronic drivetrain. In fact, they tested in public before Shimano did. If you want to read about it check this out:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/news/04-05

and

http://www.campyonly.com/rumors/new_electronic_record.html

ok, they knocked it off already.
grant...you gotta pay up.

ok, make the bet about who sells the stuff commercially first...
howz that?
i need the 5 euros to buy a cup of coffee when i go over this year.

[Grant McLean]

ok, they knocked it off already.
grant...you gotta pay up.


steve

i was all set to pay... and then Levi comes outta nowhere,
knocks my wallet flying into the air. It lands, I rush over
to pick it up and give you your $5 when the race commish
comes over and tells me I don't gotta pay. go figure...

g

[catulle]

Talking about a circumcision machine...

[atmo]

Talking about a circumcision machine...
once again (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iHetg_A8_g0), atmo...

[fiamme red]

its too easy to shift these days.
bring me back to the day when you could go on a 30 mile ride and never touch the shifter..." yeah, never left the 42-17 today...hadda stand up a couple times..."
like ti designs world now. ( he just thinks its a fixed gear..in reality he cant find the shift lever since its not on his down tube- no lie )
nowadays i can shift 3 times in my own driveway..too easy i say.
bring back shiite that works terrible...make there be a price to pay for shifting. when men were men and tt was 5'6"...
next thing they'll hook the damn thing up to a hr monitor and you'll be out there arguing with the thing..
you.." i dont wanna shift right now...i wanna stand up for a few minutes"
hr monitor replies..." no, you have to shift now...its programmed in...if you dont wanna you have to reprogram the computer...will take 3 hours..haha go screw yrself."
you and the hr monitor fighting on the side of the road...
picture it...could happen...potm :beer:

[J.Greene]

. . . as to why they would be running developmental versions like this--assumed to be heavy and clunky--during professional competition. Seems like the last place they would want to add extra weight to the bike.
BBD

This may be a big race for us, but it's a working vacation for many of those guys.

JG

[Serpico]

...

The whole reason I admire my bike and love cycling is the simplicity of it--the effort, the beauty of that simplicity, and the simplicity of the bike!

...

bumblebee speaks the truth

[Vancouverdave]

Yes, there are genuine innovations in cycling equipment as in everything--but there are also deliberate and calculated frauds dreamed up by somebody without any truly beneficial new ideas. I'll learn how to work on it for the fraud victims who get scammed by component mfg's, but the real innovations will continue. Probably nobody on this board rides one, wants to or needs to, but the Electra "Townie" type of bike is a real innovation in that it makes cycling comfortable and even possible for people who didn't think they liked riding bikes before. I don't consider gee-whiz tecnhical excesses for pro riders "innovations" until they are proven to be improvements by people who actually have to pay retail for their bike equipment.

[gt6267a]

I imagine frames in the future will be coated with solar panels.

I imagine stevep is right, one will set cadence parameters and the bike will shift up or down like an automatic transmission.

I imagine road bikes will switch to disc brakes and will be electronically controlled.

I imagine that one of these days the UCI will give up on the double diamond and all hell will break loose in the biking world.

I imagine that governments will give up on smoking bans and convert to parts per million tests for air quality control. I know this is not biking related, but I think smoking bans suck. Tell operators that they must have a certain quality of air. If they are able to setup ventilation / filtration to meet the standard GREAT. If not, no smoking. Don’t ban it, give people a choice. Note: I am a non-smoker but see what the smoking laws have done to where I live and it stinks for everyone. Clearly, I am annoyed by this today. Rant off.

[jeh]

I'll wait for the hydrogen fuel cell version, in-frame tank? powers my lights too? awesome!

-j

[RPS]

Because weight don't matter as much as we like to think it does. That's not the royal "we" either. I'm talking about the proletariat.

:banana:You are right regarding performance; but it will be interesting to see what kind of spin the manufacturers put on this equipment if it turns out to be heavier. For years they’ve emphasized light weight to justify higher margins – will they backpedal on weight if beneficial to their bottom line?

[RPS]

I imagine that governments will give up on smoking bans and convert to parts per million tests for air quality control. I know this is not biking related, but I think smoking bans suck. Tell operators that they must have a certain quality of air. If they are able to setup ventilation / filtration to meet the standard GREAT. If not, no smoking. Don’t ban it, give people a choice. Note: I am a non-smoker but see what the smoking laws have done to where I live and it stinks for everyone. Clearly, I am annoyed by this today. Rant off.Perhaps in theory, but don't you think that in practice it would add too much cost in enforcement? It would not be practical IMO.

[sg8357]

I can see it now, Microsoft buys Campy.

Microsoft Windows for Wheels follows.

Boonen is in the final sprint and Windows for Wheels blue screens (crashes), shifting him into the 39/23 crawl home mode.

Boonen loses Paris-Roubaix.

Boonen bashes Bill with bike, world cheers.

Campy announces introduction of the Super Record Paris Roubaix shifter.

Scott G.

[gt6267a]

Perhaps in theory, but don't you think that in practice it would add too much cost in enforcement? It would not be practical IMO.

i did not say it was practical, i just like the idea better than the current setup.

[Serpico]

Thanks for weight concerns--without them we'd have tons of useless 'innovations'--can you imagine all the crap we'd have on our bikes?

[sspielman]

I like the *idea* of electronic shifting, but my moral conscience forbids me of expressing any further interest...I fear that the use of the batteries for this purpose will unnecessarily contribute to global warming....

[Vancouverdave]

Will this thing have a computer chip running it that's smart enough to adjust shifting to compensate for the wear of consumable parts? That is, will it be able to mimic the human hand/brain connection that helps all of us adjust our shifting as the chain, cassette, chainrings, and derailleurs wear? Or will these parts' peak working life shrink further as they have with each additional gear and shifting convenience. An honest component manufacturer will mention this and recommend parts replacement at a shorter mileage increment.

[RPS]

I like the *idea* of electronic shifting, but my moral conscience forbids me of expressing any further interest...I fear that the use of the batteries for this purpose will unnecessarily contribute to global warming....We could always offset the generated heat by riding 0.065 MPH slower.

[RPS]

Thanks for weight concerns--without them we'd have tons of useless 'innovations'--can you imagine all the crap we'd have on our bikes?Some riders already do -- just look around.

I'm as guilty as the next guy; when I go for a long unsupported ride my seat bag weighs far more than my frameset or wheels.

[zap]

This is great stuff.

One can fix this if you know something about electronics. If you like internal routing, I used mil-spec when I put my zap equipped Look Monoblade together. This is the sort of stuff that puzzles most bike mechanics.

Anyhow, I was watching some of the riders during the ToC prologue and mentioned to zip that some of these riders could have cut one or two seconds off their time if they used zap shifting. On an aero bike, multiple shifting locations is a plus.

Progress is good.

Ride on.

[AgilisMerlin]

Just think, your tool bag can now include a soldering iron............yahooooooooo :crap:

http://www.makezine.com/blog/wlc100lg.jpg

It is not that it won't work, but who would find satisfaction in trying to fix it.

modern der. = pivot bolts and springs and hex heads...........kind of simple....no ?



amerliN

[zap]

cut

modern der. = pivot bolts and springs and hex heads...........kind of simple....no ?



amerliN


Quite simply experience is a great thing.

I put my kit together 13 years ago. I took the protective wraping off for the first time last month and everything is as new.

Satisfaction comes from thinking outside the box and doing a good job the first time.

[dauwhe]

Is a bicycle still a human-powered machine if a battery helps us shift? The whole idea makes me uneasy, and I don't think I'd feel entirely comfortable about riding such a bike on a brevet. Funny that batteries for lights don't bother me at all, although I do feel good about my generator hub...

Dave

[RPS]

Progress seems inevitable unless UCI dictates otherwise.

Even auto brakes are headed towards electric and electronics. Soon hydraulic brakes will follow linkages and cables into obsolescence.

[Grant McLean]

Progress seems inevitable unless UCI dictates otherwise.

Even auto brakes are headed towards electric and electronics. Soon hydraulic brakes will follow linkages and cables into obsolescence.

Progress and obsolescence are relative terms!

g

[RPS]

Progress and obsolescence are relative terms!

gAgreed -- good point. And in a free market like ours, the majority will let us know with their wallets -- provided they are given a choice. My concern is with regulators controlling technology in lieu of letting the free market do it for them.

[Erik.Lazdins]

Progress seems inevitable unless UCI dictates otherwise.

Even auto brakes are headed towards electric and electronics. Soon hydraulic brakes will follow linkages and cables into obsolescence.

Who is working on a Gas-Powered shifter?

Imagine riding up to gas pump to top off your shifters before a long ride.

[stevep]

how about nuclear power? never have to charge the batteries...
power too cheap to meter.

[rdparadise]

I heard Shimano was going electronic in 2008. Only time will tell.

I know Mavic had electronic shifting back a couple of years ago.

Just think, climbing you're favorite hill and then, dead, no shift, no notice, no nothing. Now what do I do? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :crap:

I agree that we have seen improvements galore from Shimano and Campy, but this one may go over the deep end. We'll have to wait and see.

Bob

[michael white]

the mavic stuff was a black mark for them, but I suspect the big 2 won't bring anything out that doesn't work. I bet that cable actuation was treated the same way: I bet riders said, yeah great what happens when I'm going up a hill and the cables snap? no thanks, I'll take the old lever actuation, or better yet just use my hands. . .

no really, I am the least technologically minded, and will keep riding my old campy SR stuff till I am literally knocked off the road into the ditch . . . but things do change, ya know. . .

[AgilisMerlin]

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Derailleur/product_20835.shtml

http://bicycletech.blogspot.com/2006/04/electronics-next-bicycle-frontier.html






amerliN

[Too Tall]

Reading this reminds me why I run away at the speed of technology....no 'chit lots of us do it and for good reason.
I'll be the last to put that garbage on my bike and at the point it becomes a PITA to resist I'll fold just like the rest of you mokes ;)
Fuggem, just gives me one more excuse to ride steel bikes, scratch where it itches and blow boogers on guys riding the "cool bikes" ;) (wink wink)

[sailorboy]

how about nuclear power? never have to charge the batteries...
power too cheap to meter.
C'mon Steve,
Haven't you learned from our pres-o-dent by now? It's nuc-u-lar, not nuclear. If there's one thing I hate its bad grammar.

[catulle]

C'mon Steve,
Haven't you learned from our pres-o-dent by now? It's nuc-u-lar, not nuclear. If there's one thing I hate its bad grammar.

Not his fault, Sailorboy (?)...

[pdxmech13]

i'm offeneded

as we always


called'em snot


rockets.

[stevep]

C'mon Steve,
Haven't you learned from our pres-o-dent by now? It's nuc-u-lar, not nuclear. If there's one thing I hate its bad grammar.

tks for the correction. i always get that wrong.
i need 1/2 pint of plutonium for my new shifter.
youre in the navy. can you get into a submarine and just borrow some?
tks,
s

[Grant McLean]

DYLAN GOES ELECTRIC
The Newport Folk Festival, July 1965

from Robert Shelton, No Direction Home: The Life and Music of Bob Dylan, New York, 1986, pp. 301-304.

At the Newport Festival in July 1965, Dylan played three songs with a rock backing and unleashed a storm of derision. From the start, Newport '65 did not augur well. Baez sported her newest protoge, Donovan, on her arm. At an afternoon workshop, Alan Lomax, folk purist, and Albert Grossman clashed openly over the way Lomax had introduced Grossman's soon-to-be clients, The Paul Butterfield Blues Band. Hosting the "Bluesville Workshop," Lomax, never a skilled diplomat, waxed elegiac over the panel's black bluesman. He challenged the Butterfield Band in words to this effect: "Let's see if these Chicago boys know what the blues are all about." After the Butterfield Band had played to an ovation, Grossman belabored Lomax for his patronizing introduction. Invective began to fly, and shortly the giant of folklore and the titan of folk business were wrestling on the ground. Onlookers separated the mastodons. While the scuffle had been personal, it had some theoretical roots. Lomax's concept of rock as black man's music was only resented in some folk circles.

Typically, Dylan told no more people than necessary about his plans for Sunday night. He relished the dramatic departure. He couldn't envision a backfire. Since January, his two electric singles and an album had done fabulously well. At the festival, the Butterfield Band and The Chambers Brothers this year, and Muddy Waters the year before, had shown that amplified-electric instrumentation and heavy rhythm were not taboo. It was, to Dylan, "all music, no more, no less."

In the 1965 Newport program book, I had appealed for tolerance toward folk-related popular and country music: "The middle-class collegiate audience of folk music is only a part of the music scene. The tastes, interests and social attitudes of the high-school student or drop-out, the working-class kid, must also be appreciated." I was by no means preaching to the converted, for all too many folk fans, while twisting their radio dials to The Beatles, other English rock groups, and R & B, felt their traditional music embodied the only "healthy" elements, the only "honest" verities.

To compound Dylan's difficulties, Seeger announced that the Sunday night final program was a message from today's folk musicians to a newborn baby about the world we live in. Unfortunately, this theme did not correspond to Dylan's conception of his performance. Dylan's Sunday segment was sandwiched between Cousin Emmy and the Sea Island singers, two very traditional acts. Cousin Emmy's high spot was "Turkey in the Straw." Dylan had to do his bit at the appointed spot, without a sound check for his pick-up band.

At the festival, A1 Kooper, whose session work had already impressed Dylan, was strolling about when Albert said Bob was looking for him. Dylan told Kooper he wanted to bring the "Rolling Stone" sound on-stage. Three members of the Butterfield Band were recruited: guitarist Mike Bloomfield, drummer Sam Lay, and bassist Jerome Arnold. At a party in Newport, Dylan completed his band with pianist Barry Goldberg. In a Newport mansion, Dylan rehearsed this instant group until dawn. They kept their plan secret until they walked onstage, Dylan, in a matador-outlaw orange shirt and black leather, carrying an electric guitar. From the moment the group swung into a rocking electric version of "Maggie's Farm," the Newport audience registered hostility. As the group finished "Farm," there was some reserved applause and a flurry of boos. Someone shouted: "Bring back Cousin Emmy!" The microphones and speakers were all out of balance, and the sound was poor and lopsided. For even the most ardent fan of the new music, the performance was unpersuasive. As Dylan led his band into "Rolling Stone," the audience grew shriller: "Play folk music! ... Sell out! ... This is a folk festival! ... Get rid of that band!" Dylan began "It Takes a Train to Cry," and the applause diminished as the heckling increased. Dylan and the group disappeared offstage, and there was a long, clumsy silence. Peter Yarrow urged Bob to return and gave him his acoustic guitar. As Bob returned on the stage alone, he discovered he didn't have the right harmonica. "What are you doing to me?" Dylan demanded of Yarrow. To shouts for "Tambourine Man," Dylan said: "OK, I'll do that one for you." The older song had a palliative effect and won strong applause. Then Dylan did "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue," singing adieu to Newport, good-bye to the folk-purist audience.

Backstage, there had been almost as much excitement as out front. At the first sound of the amplified instruments, Pete Seeger had turned a bright purple and begun kicking his feet and flailing his arms. (A festival official said later: "I had never seen any trace of violence in Pete, except at that moment. He was furious with Dylan!") Reportedly, one festival board member--probably Seeger--was so upset that he threatened to pull out the entire electrical wiring system. Cooler heads cautioned that plunging the audience into the dark might cause a real riot.

At a party later that night, The Chambers Brothers played rock for dancing, and a discotheque ambience descended on Newport. I asked George Wein, the festival's technical producer, why he didn't like folk-rock. He countered: "You've been brainwashed by the recording industry." Off in a corner, a sullen Dylan sat on the lap of Betsy Siggins, of Cambridge's Club 47. He looked stunned, shaken, and disappointed.

(The outbursts at Newport that Sunday night, July 25, 1965, brought to mind another startling event in music history. At the premiere of Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring," on May 29, 1913, at the Theatre des Champs-Elysses, the Paris audience was torn in two by Stravinsky's pioneering score and Nijinsky's choreography. When the curtains parted on the ballet troupe, a storm broke loose. Stravinsky stomped backstage. Carl Van Vechten wrote later that many outraged listeners thought the Stravinsky work "was a blasphemous attempt to destroy music as an art." There was so much racket, the orchestra played unheard. Catcalls, boos, and hissing interrupted music and dancing. People in the gallery called out for a doctor, two doctors, even a dentist! Backstage, pandemonium. Diaghilev, the famous choreographer, thought the only way to curb the noise was to turn off the lights. He kept ordering the electricians to turn the house lights on, then off. On a chair in the wings, Nijinsky stood, with Stravinsky behind him, "beating out the rhythms with his fists and shouting numbers to the dancers like a coxswain." At the end, orchestra, dancers, leaders of the production, and audience, were completely exhausted. )

As cast and audience left Newport '65, a definite break in community brotherhood had occurred. Dylan had served another declaration of aesthetic independence. Later, in Sing Out, Jim Rooney, a gentle Boston musician, wrote: "It was disturbing to the Old Guard ... Bob is no longer a Neo-Woody Guthrie .... The highway he travels now is unfamiliar to those who bummed around... during the Depression. He travels by plane ... the mountains and valleys he knows are those of the mind---a mind extremely aware of the violence of the inner and outer world. 'The people' so loved by Pete Seeger are 'the mob' so hated by Dylan .... They seemed to understand that night for the first time what Dylan has been trying to say for over a year--that he is not theirs or anyone else's and they didn't like what they heard and booed .... Can there be no songs as violent as the age? Must a folk song be of mountains, valleys, and love between my brother and my sister all over this land? Do we allow for despair only in the blues?... The only one in the entire festival who questioned our position was Bob Dylan. Maybe he didn't put it in the best way. Maybe he was rude. But he shook us. And that is why we have poets and artists."

I saw Dylan twice in New York the week after the festival. He still seemed stunned and distressed that he had sparked such animosity. He was shaken that people had yelled "Get rid of that electric guitar!" But he refused to enter squabbles. Of his introducing electric music at Newport and the years of controversy that ensued, Dylan said, over and over again, "It was honest. It was honest."

[Too Tall]

i'm offeneded

as we always


called'em snot


rockets.

LMAO ;)

[davids]

At the festival, A1 Kooper, whose session work had already impressed Dylan, was strolling about when Albert said Bob was looking for him. Dylan told Kooper he wanted to bring the "Rolling Stone" sound on-stage. Three members of the Butterfield Band were recruited: guitarist Mike Bloomfield, drummer Sam Lay, and bassist Jerome Arnold. At a party in Newport, Dylan completed his band with pianist Barry Goldberg. In a Newport mansion, Dylan rehearsed this instant group until dawn. They kept their plan secret until they walked onstage, Dylan, in a matador-outlaw orange shirt and black leather, carrying an electric guitar. From the moment the group swung into a rocking electric version of "Maggie's Farm," the Newport audience registered hostility. As the group finished "Farm," there was some reserved applause and a flurry of boos. Someone shouted: "Bring back Cousin Emmy!" The microphones and speakers were all out of balance, and the sound was poor and lopsided. For even the most ardent fan of the new music, the performance was unpersuasive. As Dylan led his band into "Rolling Stone," the audience grew shriller: "Play folk music! ... Sell out! ... This is a folk festival! ... Get rid of that band!" Dylan began "It Takes a Train to Cry," and the applause diminished as the heckling increased. Dylan and the group disappeared offstage, and there was a long, clumsy silence. Peter Yarrow urged Bob to return and gave him his acoustic guitar. As Bob returned on the stage alone, he discovered he didn't have the right harmonica. "What are you doing to me?" Dylan demanded of Yarrow. To shouts for "Tambourine Man," Dylan said: "OK, I'll do that one for you." The older song had a palliative effect and won strong applause. Then Dylan did "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue," singing adieu to Newport, good-bye to the folk-purist audience.
At least part of this performance (Maggie's Farm, atmo) is in the Scorsese film shown on PBS:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000A0GP4K.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I disagree with Robert Shelton. The performance is incendiary.

p.s. Dylan rides Shimano STI.

[Grant McLean]

At least part of this performance (Maggie's Farm, atmo) is in the Scorsese film shown on PBS:

I disagree with Robert Shelton. The performance is incendiary.

p.s. Dylan rides Shimano STI.


I remember the Royal Albert Hall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bootleg_Series_Vol._4:_Bob_Dylan_Live_1966,_Th e_%22Royal_Albert_Hall%22_Concert) show from the movie.
All those fans yelling stuff and hissing. I was thinking, what the heck is the problem?
The band rocked!!

g

[zap]

Fuggem, just gives me one more excuse to ride steel bikes, ...........


You sold the Spectrum Ti?

[rpm]

Shimano 2008 is the new "Firefox" system. You wear a special helmet and all you have to do to shift is to think about shifting. The only problem is that you have to think in Japanese.

[72gmc]

As long as innovation does not replace necessary skills, it's fine for those who want it. This is not the same as introducing a car that parallel parks itself to a public that increasingly can't (or won't) perform basic driving skills. One still has to ride the bike.

[Too Tall]

Zappato - "Resist" not deny. I'll throw down for the good stuff always but use the speed of technology to pedal "backwards" into an age of innocence always. Can you dig that?...he said writing deposit checks for 1/2 the framebuilders at the show before waiting lists are stacked so high this won't need explaining ;) hehe.

[pdxmech13]

I'm just starting to think of puttting a comp on my bike.