Charles Krauthammer

[fignon's barber]

As if the news of Anthony Bourdain today wasn't bad enough, now this:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/a-note-to-readers/ar-AAyoj8V?ocid=spartanntp

[simplemind]

There is only one Charles, and that's so unfortunate.

[FlashUNC]

There is only one Charles, and that's so unfortunate.

Given his disastrous views on foreign policy, I consider it a blessing there's only one of him.

All the best to him in whatever time he has left.

[Fivethumbs]

That's a bummer. I really enjoyed his insight on current affairs.

[rnhood]

A person of class, insight and intellect. Its tragic that we are going to lose him. Whether one agreed with him or not, he always provided a reasoned response.

[fignon's barber]

A person of class, insight and intellect. Its tragic that we are going to lose him. Whether one agreed with him or not, he always provided a reasoned response.


Exactly. Class.

[fignon's barber]

Given his disastrous views on foreign policy, I consider it a blessing there's only one of him.


I sincerely feel sorry for you as a human. This has nothing to do with politics.

[FlashUNC]

I sincerely feel sorry for you as a human. This has nothing to do with politics.

He was a political commentator. It has everything to do with politics. The only reason you know him is his politics.

He wasn't Charles Krauthammer your local bus driver.

What is happening to him is sad and I feel for him as a fellow person. But he pushed poisonous foreign policy ideas that led to the worst post-war foreign policy decision this country made. And he has refused to acknowledge he might have gotten that one wrong.

[cadence90]

**** it....
.

[Burnette]

Harsh news to hear of a fellow human being struck and yet still viable. Think of the weight of knowing your time of expiration and how you cope those last few days, how do you even function?

At one’s end all swords are laid down and respect is given for the good in the fallen, for we all posses both good and bad, and we show respect for the grieving family just as we would our own.

There are many good reasons to damn a man but populous views counter to mine aren’t one of them and at this time, again, as a human being, I hope him comfort and peace.

[fignon's barber]

Harsh news to hear of a fellow human being struck and yet still viable. Think of the weight of knowing your time of expiration and how you cope those last few days, how do you even function?

At one’s end all swords are laid down and respect is given for the good in the fallen, for we all posses both good and bad, and we show respect for the grieving family just as we would our own.

There are many good reasons to damn a man but populous views counter to mine aren’t one of them and at this time, again, as a human being, I hope him comfort and peace.

Well said.

[FlashUNC]

There are many good reasons to damn a man but populous views counter to mine aren’t one of them and at this time, again, as a human being, I hope him comfort and peace.

I wish I could have your capacity for forgiveness in face of the numbers:

4,500 American troops dead. 35,000 wounded, many maimed for life.
17,000 post-occupation Iraqi Security Forces dead. 40,000 wounded.

As many as 600,000 Iraqis dead, by some estimates.

A 15 year war that continues today that, as of 5 years ago, already cost this country $2 trillion that could accrue to $6 trillion with interest over the next few decades. Nearly a half-trillion in veterans benefits alone for the wounded.

This wasn't some empty thought experiment, a parlor discussion where gentlemen disagreed. Thousands died because of views he espoused for years, including promoting that this would be a quick, painless and inexpensive venture for all parties involved.

His struggle the last 10 months with cancer is, I'm sure, agonizing and this news of recurrence no less devastating.

But I cannot separate the man from what made him who he is and why we know him, particularly when it seems the war he wanted America to fight so much nearly two decades ago will now outlive him.

[Brian Cdn]

He was a political commentator. It has everything to do with politics. The only reason you know him is his politics.

He wasn't Charles Krauthammer your local bus driver.

What is happening to him is sad and I feel for him as a fellow person. But he pushed poisonous foreign policy ideas that led to the worst post-war foreign policy decision this country made. And he has refused to acknowledge he might have gotten that one wrong.

Yes, he's Charles Krauthammer, the guy known to many as a political commentator. He is also a fellow Montrealer, as well as a classmate and a friend of my wife's. A little respect, please, for him, his family and his friends.

[Burnette]

I wish I could have your capacity for forgiveness in face of the numbers:

4,500 American troops dead. 35,000 wounded, many maimed for life.
17,000 post-occupation Iraqi Security Forces dead. 40,000 wounded.

As many as 600,000 Iraqis dead, by some estimates.

A 15 year war that continues today that, as of 5 years ago, already cost this country $2 trillion that could accrue to $6 trillion with interest over the next few decades. Nearly a half-trillion in veterans benefits alone for the wounded.

This wasn't some empty thought experiment, a parlor discussion where gentlemen disagreed. Thousands died because of views he espoused for years, including promoting that this would be a quick, painless and inexpensive venture for all parties involved.

His struggle the last 10 months with cancer is, I'm sure, agonizing and this news of recurrence no less devastating.

But I cannot separate the man from what made him who he is and why we know him, particularly when it seems the war he wanted America to fight so much nearly two decades ago will now outlive him.

What a waste to argue with one who wishes nothing more than to argue.

One thing that can be said is that in your place of being no rocks were to be found, you had thrown them all.

[FlashUNC]

Yes, he's Charles Krauthammer, the guy known to many as a political commentator. He is also a fellow Montrealer, as well as a classmate and a friend of my wife's. A little respect, please, for him, his family and his friends.

My condolences and sympathies.

[colker]

I wish I could have your capacity for forgiveness in face of the numbers:

4,500 American troops dead. 35,000 wounded, many maimed for life.
17,000 post-occupation Iraqi Security Forces dead. 40,000 wounded.

As many as 600,000 Iraqis dead, by some estimates.

A 15 year war that continues today that, as of 5 years ago, already cost this country $2 trillion that could accrue to $6 trillion with interest over the next few decades. Nearly a half-trillion in veterans benefits alone for the wounded.

This wasn't some empty thought experiment, a parlor discussion where gentlemen disagreed. Thousands died because of views he espoused for years, including promoting that this would be a quick, painless and inexpensive venture for all parties involved.

His struggle the last 10 months with cancer is, I'm sure, agonizing and this news of recurrence no less devastating.

But I cannot separate the man from what made him who he is and why we know him, particularly when it seems the war he wanted America to fight so much nearly two decades ago will now outlive him.

If you can´t separate our value as individuals from the political ideas we spouse you never understood quite right the humanism you defend.
Ideas can and will be changed but the mysteries, terrors and suffering everyone one of us is faced with never changes. That´s why every religion and every left field spiritualized atheism cares for your existence and not your political conscience.

[cadence90]

There is too much similarity between some of the comments expressed in this thread, in the recent Barbara Bush thread, and (not on Paceline Forum) about John McCain's current condition, among other examples.

None of these comments are humane or elegant in any way, and no statistics or personal politics/opinions can justify the crassness contained therein.
.

[FlashUNC]

If you can´t separate our value as individuals from the political ideas we spouse you never understood quite right the humanism you defend.
Ideas can and will be changed but the mysteries, terrors and suffering everyone one of us is faced with never changes. That´s why every religion and every left field spiritualized atheism cares for your existence and not your political conscience.

Oh I can.

But being of the generation that went over there and fought in the desert, there are friends and friends of friends who either went over and never came back, or came back scarred in some way -- some mentally, some physically, some both.

For those of us a certain age, the war wasn't (and isn't) some abstract thing to be pushed in op-eds and columns about how the projection American power should work. Particularly when the war was for nothing, and those who sacrificed much were sold on a bill of goods that wasn't true.

I truly do empathize for those who know Charles, his friends, family and loved ones. Cancer is a terrible thing and I don't wish it on my worst enemy. But I've seen enough of the ideas he pushed for years and the damage they caused first-hand that I'm in no mood to venerate the man.

[gasman]

He’s a person. He’s dying. Please be respectful of that. 1/2 ( roughly) of the country disagreed with his politics but he’s still human.

Thanks

[Anarchist]

Given his disastrous views on foreign policy, I consider it a blessing there's only one of him.

All the best to him in whatever time he has left.

You are pathetic.

[Anarchist]

My condolences and sympathies.

Save it.

[bob heinatz]

He is from Berkeley. That explains it all.

[cadence90]

Given his disastrous views on foreign policy, I consider it a blessing there's only one of him.Cancer is a terrible thing and I don't wish it on my worst enemy.
There is some dissonance there.

But I've seen enough of the ideas he pushed for years and the damage they caused first-hand that I'm in no mood to venerate the man.
Krauthammer's ideas are not the subject of this thread.
Nobody has asked anyone, and certainly not you, to "venerate the man", only to respect his pain and suffering. Nothing more than that, period.

Apparently you are incapable of doing so. This is of no surprise.

Your opinions on his politics and philosophy have absolutely nothing to do with this thread, other than to underscore your petty selfishness and insistence on "being right"; are completely irrelevant; and are rude to the rest of the Forum.
.

[OtayBW]

I wish I could have your capacity for forgiveness in face of the numbers:
Nobody is asking you to forgive or forget anything. But there is a time and a place to air your grievances and this sure ain't it, IMO.

[makoti]

You are pathetic.

Save it.

He is from Berkeley. That explains it all.

Wow. Those were some helpful comments. Very respectful dialogue.

[oldpotatoe]

Harsh news to hear of a fellow human being struck and yet still viable. Think of the weight of knowing your time of expiration and how you cope those last few days, how do you even function?

At one’s end all swords are laid down and respect is given for the good in the fallen, for we all posses both good and bad, and we show respect for the grieving family just as we would our own.

There are many good reasons to damn a man but populous views counter to mine aren’t one of them and at this time, again, as a human being, I hope him comfort and peace.

Well done Burnette. I agreed with little he said, altho his recent opinions of today's 'government' were spot on IMHO. But he's still one of us humans, with a family and it's sad to see another succumb to this scourge called cancer.

[RobJ]

Harsh news to hear of a fellow human being struck and yet still viable. Think of the weight of knowing your time of expiration and how you cope those last few days, how do you even function?



At one’s end all swords are laid down and respect is given for the good in the fallen, for we all posses both good and bad, and we show respect for the grieving family just as we would our own.



There are many good reasons to damn a man but populous views counter to mine aren’t one of them and at this time, again, as a human being, I hope him comfort and peace.



".....at one's end all swords are laid down" are probably some of the most well written words I read lately!

Well said my friend.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Cicli]

Given his disastrous views on foreign policy, I consider it a blessing there's only one of him.

All the best to him in whatever time he has left.

I am glad I dont know you.

[oldpotatoe]

Flash writes-This wasn't some empty thought experiment, a parlor discussion where gentlemen disagreed. Thousands died because of views he espoused for years, including promoting that this would be a quick, painless and inexpensive venture for all parties involved.

Hey flash...He didn't make any of the decisions, he was just a pundit who got the whys and where-fors wrong about Iraq in the MEDIA..kinda like say... JFK got it wrong(VietNam). Many got it wrong. BUT with the same circumstances, intell(even if faulty), many people who make the decisions would make the same choices.
Hindsight is always 20-20...But many of that era were wrong..'maybe' some who you support and admire..

As for the military and 'causes', in the political landscape the civilian leadership occupies and when they send the US military into harm's way...very few in the military even consider it. They have a mission and they will do their utmost to accomplish said mission. Whether or not any 'conflict' is a good or bad idea, overall..most in the military don't even consider it. They care about their brothers and sisters in arms, accomplishing the mission and hopefully coming home safe. BUT altho most in the military know they are part of 'foreign policy by another means'(with apologies to Clauswitz), it means little to them in the moment.

Out

[daker13]

Mental note, I wish I'd posted an OT when Hugo Chavez died so that I could register outrage when the thread descended into politics.

[schwa86]

I find threads like this pretty odd.

On the one hand, I don't totally get the collective posting regarding someone we don't know, whose work is completely unrelated to cycling, appreciating that person is confronting tough times. I will admit that I tend to feel at least some connection when we have OT obits for, say, a musical artist, that some of us listened to and which prompt sharing of memories about our own experiences; this thread really has virtually none of that. In terms of the sharing of concern, wouldn't it be more appropriate to direct people to comment online on his original post or something so that he or his family can read people's appreciation for him?

The thread devolved mostly into a consideration of his actual substantive work, and whether one should comment on it given his illness. It seems to me that: 1) we tend to avoid the politics stuff around here given differences of opinion; 2) if we are going to have the politics discussion, then Flash has certainly expressed a reasonably articulated position (albeit one people are free to disagree with) which does not warrant the kinds of personal attacks thrown out here; and 3) somehow imputing that critiquing someone who expresses strong and public political views with whom you disagree makes you insensitive to the military, uneducated or unappreciative of how government decisions get made, or at the extreme unamerican is pretty off.

[William]

Time to go out and ride folks.


There is a reason we generally discourage politics and this thread has turned out as another example. I'm sure it was started with the best of intentions and it led to some very good comments. But some people can't seem to help themselves and throw out crass comments or purposely run it down a political hole.





William