NOS Tommasini, how should I build it?

[Karbon]

It HAS to be Campy. Cinelli XA stem, Top 66-44 bars, Rolls or Gipiemme saddle. SR single bolt 25mm post.

But what era Campy?

My current thinking is to use 9s Record Titanium with Record Deltas, downtube levers (maybe Chorus 9s Ergo's as I have a NIB set) and '95 Record hubs with Ambrosio Nemesis 'day tubular rims shod with Vittoria KX tubulars. But I could go all Record C of 1992ish without a lot of work.

So what say you, the denzions of style and form? This started as an idea for a winter bike, something classical steel, lugged and somewhat pretty. To take out in the damp and cold without wondering if a WW part was going to give way. Something to take me back to my departing youth, when rain didn't stop me riding (ask the wife!) and snow was something to take pictures of. Big Mig was a blip on the radar of Greg Lemond, and Fignon would spit into cameras while Bugno was taking presentation girls back to his place. It's morphed and grown since then, to two complete projects (for less than the retail cost of a Colnago Master Carbon with 2006 Record - my benchmark for budget), so I can afford to dream a little more, but I have gotten used to 10s and Ergo shifting. So do I keep it (actually with 9s, and all aluminum components) or do I reach back in time for all the components?

I have thought two bikes is too much, and I should sell one, but I don't think I'd ever be able to repeat the exercise, so here I am....

So, what say you all?

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=15959&stc=1

[stevep]

i say new centaur. not a lot on $$$ stuff is pretty good.
10 spd. then you can use the wheels on your other bike if you need to

[Fixed]

c record would be cool if you have another modern bike imho

[SBash]

Record or Chorus. Record if you can.

[catulle]

Build it modern. Latest Campagnolo. Full Italian. Doing so you would honor it, and compensate some for the frame's weight.

[Karbon]

Build it modern. Latest Campagnolo. Full Italian. Doing so you would honor it, and compensate some for the frame's weight.


I have light bikes, one of them is 12.35lbs. Frame weight is what it is, as will be the bike.

I was thinking of a no carbon rule for the build, which rules out latest Record Ergo levers and derailleurs.

I'm kind of stuck on how the Gewiss De Rosa's were built, Record with DT levers and Shamal type wheels (box section wheels for winter). I don't need to worry about wheels for the other bikes, they have their own (typically every bike of mine has two sets of wheels for it).

It will be full Italian, anything else would be wrong in my eyes. In some ways this is my ode to what I think was the best days of Italian frame building (now I better go hide).

[Archibald]

It has a chrome fork for god's sake! It must be built with an eye for style and therefore, no carbon fiber, no weight weenie parts, no latest fashions, no deep section rims.

C-record if you have it but Super or Neuvo Record would be better. Doesn't have the tubes to pull off Delta brakes, fatmo. Delta's only look good on bikes built with Max tubes.

[Karbon]

It has a chrome fork for god's sake! It must be built with an eye for style and therefore, no carbon fiber, no weight weenie parts, no latest fashions, no deep section rims.

C-record if you have it but Super or Neuvo Record would be better. Doesn't have the tubes to pull off Delta brakes, fatmo. Delta's only look good on bikes built with Max tubes.

I believe it was built in 1992, so deep section was somewhat in style.

I think Deltas suit this downtube to a T...

[Archibald]

I believe it was built in 1992, so deep section was somewhat in style.

I think Deltas suit this downtube to a T...
Wow, from the profile shot I didn't notice it was an MS bike. OK, you have my permission to use Delta's, but just barely. :)

Deep section rims are still a no-no! Doesn't matter if they were around in '92, they don't fit the style of the bike. You don't wear argyle socks and a plaid tie with a sharkskin suit, fatmo.

[Ken Robb]

I thought I read that Delta brakes were best used with wide rims to ensure that the shoes didn't go into the spokes when the pads got worn. I suppose this would only happen to dummies who don't inspect their bikes though.
This bike is about 10 years too young to join the CR group.

What is the rear spacing? If it's 130mm I would go with 9 or 10 speed all metal Ergos. If it's 126 I might want Nuovo/Super Record. I've never ridden Campy indexed DT shifters but the Shimano ones work great. I have one all Nuovo Record bike and it's fun for a change of pace but I'm sometimes tempted to swap the shifters for Suntour Power Ratchets, the brakes for Tektro dual pivots, and the brake levers for Shimano DA Aeros all of which are sitting in my tool box. Of course then I might as well get a Sugino triple crank and some Shimano derailleurs for a better-performing but less-cool mutt.

[Frank]

Shimano Ultegra 9 speed STI and matching Ultegra components, Thomson seat post, 3T quill stem, Mavic wheels, Specialized saddle :)

[Karbon]

Shimano Ultegra 9 speed STI and matching Ultegra components, Thomson seat post, 3T quill stem, Mavic wheels, Specialized saddle :)

Frank, you are a very sick man!

Ken, it's 130mm rear spacing.

[Climb01742]

I have light bikes, one of them is 12.35lbs.

details, please. you've_heavily_piqued my interest. merci.

[Tom Byrnes]

Beautiful frame and fork!

My Vote -- Italian components. No Carbon. Downtube shifters. 32 or 36 spoke wheels.

Tom

[obtuse]

9 speed record ergo with the pointy shifters; rolls saddle, grammo stem, 66 or 64 handlebars or those first generation mp cinelli nerve gay bars.....silver shamals corsa cx tires.....use record hubs to ambrosio rims with cg tires for the bad days.

build the thing up period correct. hanging super record on it is like putting shimano 600 on a meivici.


trust me,

obtuse

[Archibald]

9 speed record ergo with the pointy shifters; rolls saddle, grammo stem, 66 or 64 handlebars or those first generation mp cinelli nerve gay bars.....silver shamals corsa cx tires.....use record hubs to ambrosio rims with cg tires for the bad days.

build the thing up period correct. hanging super record on it is like putting shimano 600 on a meivici.


trust me,

obtuse
Uh, period correct? Must be fall sales week and you're high on Sharpie. 9-speed Record wasn't introduced until '97 and by then MS tubed bikes were long since a thing of the past. Super Record was produced until '87 or so. The tubes used on that bike were introduced in '86 and produced in large quantities in '87. C-Record cranks look a lot like the first year "Record" that came out in what, '92 or '93 I think. By the time that bike was produced in 92, it was already a hold over from a past era. C-Record would be period correct, but Super Record is much nicer to my eye.

Isn't that right, Irio?

Yes, Archie, you are indeed correct. Have I introduced you to my beautiful daughter?

[stevep]

shimano 600
obtuse

like obtuce says...
shimano 600 and save some money

[Kristopher Gree]

Hey, Karbon. I have a Diamante I purchased new (in about 1990, from Colorado Cyclist). It was my Sunny Sunday ride until my Moots pushed it out of the nest.

After buying the frame I couldn't afford to build it up until about 1992. I went with 8-speed Record which featured downtube shifters and Delta brakes; Mavic GL-330 rims with Vittoria CX/CG tires; 3ttt bar and stem; Cinelli cork; and a regal saddle. It initially had those horrible Campy SGR clipless pedals but those were soon overthrown for Looks. The componentry suits the frame nicely, although the eight speed stuff is fussy to set up, even with the third-generation Syncro shifters mine has. And Deltas aren't so hot either, in either modulation or power. They're a bear to set up, also, and have little tire clearance. I'd go instead for a set of Cobaltos, particularly given the color of your frame.

You'll find that this bike's steering is absolutely crazy fast and light. When I got mine I'd been racing for years on all manner of fast, quality bikes, but nevertheless in my first five miles hit a pole with my shoulder when trying to make a tiny course correction to avoid a pedestrian. It is plenty stiff, however and, to use a phrase that Jan Heine is trying to popularize, planes nicely.

I'm sure you'll enjoy riding it but it seems an odd choice for a winter bike. I don't think you'll be able to fit anything larger than 23c tires, and fenders will definitely not fit (and I can get plastic fenders on most anything). It's not going to be a relaxing ride in bad weather. Nor will it be able to shrug off indifferent treatment after wet rides. You'll find this last issue to be exacerbated by the down tube's propensity to collect paint chips along its sharp edge, where it gets hit by debris flung by the front tire.

I hope you'll show photos once it's built up.

Kris Green
Olympia WA

[obtuse]

Uh, period correct? Must be fall sales week and you're high on Sharpie. 9-speed Record wasn't introduced until '97 and by then MS tubed bikes were long since a thing of the past. Super Record was produced until '87 or so. The tubes used on that bike were introduced in '86 and produced in large quantities in '87. C-Record cranks look a lot like the first year "Record" that came out in what, '92 or '93 I think. By the time that bike was produced in 92, it was already a hold over from a past era. C-Record would be period correct, but Super Record is much nicer to my eye.

Isn't that right, Irio?

Yes, Archie, you are indeed correct. Have I introduced you to my beautiful daughter?


i meant eight speed and archie you're prolly right. that thing was made out of that junk tubeset in 1992 because it was a low end piece of garbage frame. strike the record and go for 8 speed athena or shimano 600. he should save up for a gewiss de rosa and a big bag of epo if he really wants to party like its 1992.

obtuse

[Big Dan]

Campagnolo 8....more than a mouthful is a waste...........atmo........ :D

[obtuse]

Campagnolo 8....more than a mouthful is a waste...........atmo........ :D


that's a bike.

obtuse

[Karbon]

i meant eight speed and archie you're prolly right. that thing was made out of that junk tubeset in 1992 because it was a low end piece of garbage frame. strike the record and go for 8 speed athena or shimano 600. he should save up for a gewiss de rosa and a big bag of epo if he really wants to party like its 1992.

obtuse


The Diamante was the top end Tommasini frame model at the time. I had an MS Olmo back in 1992 but put Dura Ace on it (I'd been using Dura Ace since 1984 at that point). No low end piece of garbarge, I raced the hell out of that bike untill I foolishly sold it.

It IS an odd choice for a winter frame, I placed one bid on it and won it on Ebay, to my eyes I got lucky. I also have this Nago enroute to build which may be better for the gloop, leaving the Tomm as a nostalgia build:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=15789&stc=1

[Fivethumbs]

You could build it like Berzin's old bike.

[shinomaster]

That thing is too nice for a winter bike...Get a caad 4 or a piece of **** like I have.

[Karbon]

That thing is too nice for a winter bike...Get a caad 4 or a piece of **** like I have.

Here in Socal it's going to have to put up with some light rain, maybe snow on the ground once or twice and otherwise just the cold (hey it's relative, +100 in summer makes 45 feel cold). My thought has been if it's good enough for Het Volk or Flanders back then, it's more than good enough for me to feel very Belgian while riding it in winter.

@fivethumbs; That's a look, and I'm thinking of following Obtuse' original suggestion of 92' Record but using DT levers, Deltas and Ambrosio Nemesis 'day rims with Vittoria CX or KX tubulars. Maybe a set of Shamals to upset the non aero wheel brigade while riding early season centuries :p

Thanks everyone for helping to solidify my thoughts. It's been helpful. :beer:

[Steelman]

I built up an older frame with C Record Delta. Used it for a few short rides before I realized I like some of the newer stuff better, esp. modern brakes.

Here is my ideal build of a steel frame. My prefered groupo is Record 9 Speed Ti:

Front Derailleur - Record Non-carbon
Rear Derailleur - Record Ti 9 Speed
Shifters - Record 9 Speed DT Indexed

Brake Levers - Last alloy record or modern Carbon. (The modern Carbon lever is more comfortable)
Brakes - Modern Record, Silver

Hub Front - C Record 1986 - 1996
Rear Hub - Record Ti 9 Speed 97-98
Rims - Mavic Open Pro Black
Tyres - Vredestein Fortezza Black (Performance of Nashbar)(cheap and durable)
Skewers - modern Record
Cassette - Veloce (Cheap)

Headset - Record 96 - 97 (Most beautiful)
Bottom Bracket - modern Chorus or Record
Crankset - modern Record alloy

Seat Post - Record 94-97 (Last alloy post)
Seat - Modern Rolls Ti

Stem - Cinelli Xa
Bars - Cinelli 64/4?

Ital-tecno.com (eBay), campyoldy.com and ridecampy.com might have the odd component. Also, any shop dealing with Euroasian imports have access to an unbelievable amount of NOS Record and C Record. Another source is Jonathan Boyers shop, he is also a wholesaler with NOS stuff.

[PanTerra]

..

[PanTerra]

Something like this -

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Italian/ciocc/Tony_Browns_full.jpg

or

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Italian/Tomasini/tom_bikL.jpg

And don't forget the toe-clips.

[Steelman]

Tommasini still builds the Diamante for the Japanese market.

http://www.real-retail.com/via/saishin/image/r-tommasini01_02.jpg http://www.real-retail.com/via/saishin/image/r-tommasini01_03.jpg http://www.real-retail.com/via/saishin/image/r-tommasini01_04.jpg http://www.cc-sanwa.com/featuring/img/special_bikes/diamante.jpg

Look at the DeRosa you can get there:

http://www.cc-sanwa.com/featuring/img/special_bikes/derosa_classic