Why I hate Group Ride (Cyclists)

[Tony T]

I like to ride solo, mainly because I like to ride when I want and not part of a schedule. But I can see the alure of a group ride as it allows learning techniques from more experienced rider and also you get to hit higher speeds.

When a group passes me, I sometime try to keep up while keeping a distance (about 5 or so bike lengths), as I'm sure they wouldn't want a rider whose experience they don't know riding their wheels. After a few miles, since I'm not drafting, I fall back and continue my solo ride.

This morning a group passes me (no 'on your left', but that's ok) and after only about a mile they slow down while we're riding down a small slope, so I pass the group (about 8 riders) and start riding at about a 30mph clip. The group leader decides to immediately pass me (again no warning) dragging his group behind him with one of them passing me within a foot of my handlebars ("3 feet — It's the Law!")

This looked like a "C" group, "B" at best and not the best of moves, but what can you do. But, again, immediately after passing me they not only slow down, but spread out! Well, I'm pissed, so I pass again (giving 3 feet), and as I'm about to pass the "leader" we're approaching an intersection and he's raising both arms (amateur move in any non-event situation), and I then sprint pass him as the light turns green. I go straight, they turn.

….and we wonder why drivers hate us.

[ripvanrando]

They were either chasing

A. STRAVA KOM

B. Pokemon

[adub]

Once you pass them set the cruise control on the power meter for 350W and don't look back.

[mack]

Sometimes it just boils down to social skills....

[tigoat]

I have seen that many times before with the “you pass me and I pass you back” macho game. It is no more than a dick measuring contest. Most fast boys like kind of game and most of the time they think they own the roads. Life is too short…just move on to enjoy the ride.

[bcroslin]

I bet at least a few of the guys on the ride were as irritated by the "ride leader's" behavior as you were. I've had to apologize to slower riders before when the dumb jock on the front of our group scares the crap out of them as he goes flying by. The weekday morning ride in St Pete has crashed into slower riders in the bike lane on more than one occasion because no one points them out. One of many reasons why I steer clear of them.

[AJosiahK]

Sometimes it just boils down to social skills....

Exactly

[Tony T]

I have seen that many times before with the “you pass me and I pass you back” macho game. It is no more than a dick measuring contest. Most fast boys like kind of game and most of the time they think they own the roads. Life is too short…just move on to enjoy the ride.

But that's not what occurred (which led to my "venting").

[Tony T]

I bet at least a few of the guys on the ride were as irritated by the "ride leader's" behavior as you were.

That may very well be the case here. It was lead that was dragging his riders with him past me, then slowing the group. I only really got pissed when one of the riders who he dragged past me came too close to my bars (he may have seen me too late as the group was swerving around me).

[Tony]

I'm having a hard time seeing what the deal is here. Folks passing you and slowing down, getting in your way? A foot from handlebars sounds fine.

[ripvanrando]

I'm having a hard time seeing what the deal is here. Folks passing you and slowing down, getting in your way? A foot from handlebars sounds fine.

Sneaking up on another rider and passing a foot away is not cool.

[Cicli]

I hate group rides because the dudes with aerobars.

[sitzmark]

"Rider up" "Rider up" - repeated through paceline. Hip pat - hand signal. "Passing left". "Last rider" "Great day for a ride". "Jump on if you want."

Seems simple .... ?

[Tony T]

I'm having a hard time seeing what the deal is here. Folks passing you and slowing down, getting in your way?

I'll summarize:
I'm @ 25mph. Group passes me.
Group Slow to 20mph. I pass the group. I'm now going 30mph.
Group passes me again. Group slows back to 20mph again.
All in less than 2 miles.
Leader was a dickhead (raises both arms in the air as he approaches intersection).
Only words from either me or anyone in the group was when on the first pass the last guy in the group gave a friendly "Hi, how's it going?"

A foot from handlebars sounds fine.

Why pass that close with no traffic in either direction?

[Tony]

I'll summarize:
I'm @ 25mpg. Group passes me.
Group Slow to 20mph. I pass the group. I'm now going 30mph.
Group passes me again. Group slows back to 20mph again.
All in less than 2 miles.
Leader was a dickhead (raises both arms in the air as he approaches intersection).

Why pass that close with no traffic in either direction?

Your title is "Why I hate Group Ride (Cyclists)"

Tony T, having a hard time understanding why the hate from what you've summarized above.
Leader raising arms may just be trying to get a laugh out of you.

[djdj]

Get off my lawn!:bike:

[Tony T]

Tony T, having a hard time understanding why the hate from what you've summarized above.


I guess you had to be there ;)

[FlashUNC]

Post on an alternate forum somewhere out there:

"Man, there was this really grumpy solo rider out there today. We leap frogged a couple times, but never said hello, never asked where we were riding. Hung off the back like a creeper when he wasn't leap frogging us. I don't know what his deal was."

[John H.]

If you didn't try to follow at a 5 bike length distance wouldn't you quickly return to your solo ride bliss?

[makoti]

"Rider up" "Rider up" - repeated through paceline. Hip pat - hand signal. "Passing left". "Last rider" "Great day for a ride". "Jump on if you want."

Seems simple .... ?

Apparently, it is a lot more difficult than we think.

[Tony T]

Apparently, it is a lot more difficult than we think.

Exactly.

This looked like an inexperienced "C" Group who were put on the road with a inexperienced "B" leader who was more interested in trying to "win" than teaching his group how to ride. A bit surprised that a few here came to his defense.

I wonder how this leader would have reacted if one of his group kept taking the lead and were unable to keep the pace?

[HenryA]

Couldn'nt you have just cranked it up to about 33-34 mph and rode them off your wheel? You know, just hold it there for about 5-10 miles until they all drop off like dead flies?


:D

[shovelhd]

C groups around here don't do 30mph on the flats. 14-18 is more like it.

If you don't like riding with groups then don't tag along on the back, even just for a little bit.

[ripvanrando]

If a car passed 12 inches away, there would be a bunch of panties all wadded up here but if another cyclist does that....no problemo.

I have as much of a problem with a car passing me 12 inches away as I do another cyclist passing me that close, especially if a little common courtesy warning like "on your left" isn't given.

The whole pass them, they pass you, etc. is just schoolyard schlong measuring.

[weisan]

Why can't we just go out, ride our bikes and come home without all this drama, whether it's self-generated or externally induced?

It's just riding bikes.....how hard can it be?

[Tony T]

C groups around here don't do 30mph on the flats. 14-18 is more like it.


I'm sure even a "C" can get it to 30 on the flats for a minute — and that was the problem, the leader couldn't keep the pace.


If you don't like riding with groups then don't tag along on the back, even just for a little bit.

Wasn't tagging on the back today. I said that until today, when a group passed me I would tag along for a bit and they would eventually drop me as I was not in their draft. That was not the case with this group.

If a rider kept passing you then slowing down, what would you do?

[Tony T]

.

I guess the consensus here would be different if it were a car that repeatedly pulled in front of me and slowed down

:)

[Ti Designs]

Everybody complains about someone else - they're on aero bars, they pass without warning, they don't hold their speed... Here's something to think about: You are someone else's "someone else". They complain about you just as much as you complain about them. The thing is, you can't do anything about their behavior, you can do something about your own (I hope).

What happens in group rides almost never bothers me, 'cause there's an unwritten rule that to join the ride you need the skills to be there. Lots of people don't, lots of people ride above their own limits. I can't do anything about that (well, I can...). I worry about my own skills, I observe other riders and I adapt to how they're riding. If I need to take control of a ride, I know how to do that. I take responsibility for my own riding. You should try it!

[carpediemracing]

If a rider kept passing you then slowing down, what would you do?

I guess the consensus here would be different if it were a car that repeatedly pulled in front of me and slowed down

:)

If a rider kept passing me and slowing down I'd slow down. If the rider really slows down, like they're blown up, then I'll pass them. Around here people turn off or a hill separates people pretty quickly. For me it's even quicker because I tend to ride pretty slowly.

I learned that it's different on the PCH in SoCal, North County anyway. People will do 1-2 hours along the PCH. If you pass someone and you're not turning off the PCH, you need to maintain your pace for a while to clear the other rider. When I catch people on the PCH I'll sit behind them for a bit, consider my pace for the next 30-45 minutes, and decided to pass or not based on that. If the rider passes me back I usually back off and let them get some distance before I continue.

And if it was a car it'd be different. Cars don't get tired and need a rest and stuff. If a car passes you, slows, lets you pass them back, passes you again, and then slows again, the car is well out of its normal operating parameters (given regular roads, not grid lock etc). It's because cars can go so much faster than a bike. That's why the 3 foot rule is there, to protect a vulnerable road user. The car weighs perhaps 20x as much as a rider, could be traveling 3-5x faster, and can cause a rider to fall even if the car doesn't hit the cyclist.

Regarding passing a foot away. If you pass a group they'll probably make some assumptions about you and your riding skill. Even if you give them 3 feet they may feel like you're comfortable with less. However, since it wasn't the first rider passing you a foot away, it was much more likely that someone was staggered to the right vs to the left and happened to be closer to you.

[livingminimal]

Sometimes it just boils down to social skills....

For me, this is all it is. I don't want to/need to ride with:

jocks
misogynists
people that ask about/stare at my tattoos
middle aged guys that haven't given up TdF dreams (jocks)
strava chasers (jocks)
people that yell at drivers
trump supporters

I will gladly ride alone or with my one or two close friends. I will change directions if I get caught up in a group that I feel might contain any of the above.

[livingminimal]

I learned that it's different on the PCH in SoCal, North County anyway.

PCH is full of leap-frog, even up here in Orange County. I don't pass anyone unless I am absolutely certain I will pass and keep gaining on them. Otherwise, I'll slow my pace. I don't do leapfrog. There is NOTHING more annoying than someone that works so hard in zone 3 or 4, panting schvitizing all over the place, to pass you and you're staying within 5 bike lengths in zone 2. Demoralizing for their jock-mentality, I'm sure, and just annoying for me, because then I am more or less pinned and doing an interval or anything is sort of out of the question because then I'll be the asshole.

[cloudguy]

people that ask about/stare at my tattoos


Whats the deal with tattoos these days anyway? Its all me, me, me, with this generation. Hopefully, it'll be considered "out" by the time my kids are of age.
And why can't I stare at and ask you about your tattoos. Isn't art meant to be looked at and discussed?

[azrider]

And why can't I stare at and ask you about your tattoos. Isn't art meant to be looked at and discussed?

HA...I thought that odd too. Several of my buddies w/ full sleeves love telling the story of the work they wear. Plus, some consider it a compliment that the work itself piqued someones interest enough to ask.

But then again the dudes in my crew are all what he'd probably consider middle aged at 38 :p

Millennials.....ugh....;)

[cat6]

I like to ride solo






When a group passes me, I sometime try to keep up



Pick one or the other and your problem will be solved.

[bitpuddle]

I then sprint pass him as the light turns green.


Amateur move. You aren't in a race.

[Tony T]

Pick one or the other and your problem will be solved.

So, you're saying that if a group increases their pace to pass me, then slows down I should turn around and go home?

I'm have to admit, I'm surprised that a lot of the cyclists here who do group rides would increase their pace only to pass the solo rider and then go back to their slower pace. Not one group rider here even considered the possibility of just letting the solo rider continue on his way.

[25.4]

Whats the deal with tattoos these days anyway? Its all me, me, me, with this generation. Hopefully, it'll be considered "out" by the time my kids are of age.
And why can't I stare at and ask you about your tattoos. Isn't art meant to be looked at and discussed?


Personally I don't consider my tattoos art-- I think its a craft that I collect. It wasn't until we entered the reality TV era that strangers wanted to talk to me about my tattoos and tattoo "artists".

What I find most annoying about these conversations is people think my tattoos have some deeper meaning. Or they want to have some rude conversation about money. That's just what I've encountered. I ignore these people and walk away.

And as far as group rides...none for me since 2009. I ride less, but my rides are much more enjoyable.

[makoti]

Personally I don't consider my tattoos art-- I think its a craft that I collect. It wasn't until we entered the reality TV era that strangers wanted to talk to me about my tattoos and tattoo "artists".

What I find most annoying about these conversations is people think my tattoos have some deeper meaning. Or they want to have some rude conversation about money. That's just what I've encountered. I ignore these people and walk away.

And as far as group rides...none for me since 2009. I ride less, but my rides are much more enjoyable.

Thread drift... I have no tattoos, so I don't get this and I don't want this to sound rude. I always thought that you got a tat for some sort of reason, that that design meant something to you. Not true? People get them just because they like the colors?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Thread drift... I have no tattoos, so I don't get this and I don't want this to sound rude. I always thought that you got a tat for some sort of reason, that that design meant something to you. Not true? People get them just because they like the colors?

Seriously, dude? Paint with a broad brush much?

[Tony T]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

[livingminimal]

Whats the deal with tattoos these days anyway?

Sorry, is it 1961?

Its all me, me, me, with this generation. Hopefully, it'll be considered "out" by the time my kids are of age.

I don't even know what the corollary is with tattoos and "me me me" ?
Like my body is "mine mine mine" ?
I am 40 years old. Still getting tattooed. Will continue getting tattooed. I also have a masters degree from a top university and a professional executive career. I am a homeowner and have two great children and don't really care if they get tattooed, as long as they're decent human beings. Weird its something you even think about it. But if you're looking for any other avenues to make assumptions, I thought I'd fill you in on "me, me, me."

And why can't I stare at and ask you about your tattoos. Isn't art meant to be looked at and discussed?

You can do anything you like, and I can choose to respond or not to. Staring is rude, my tattoos are for me, not you.
Art isn't "meant to be" anything, but given your perspective on tattoos, this paradigm isn't shocking.

[livingminimal]

Thread drift... I have no tattoos, so I don't get this and I don't want this to sound rude. I always thought that you got a tat for some sort of reason, that that design meant something to you. Not true? People get them just because they like the colors?

Maybe? Maybe I just like a design? Maybe it's my business why I got something and not anyone else's?

[livingminimal]

HA...I thought that odd too. Several of my buddies w/ full sleeves love telling the story of the work they wear. Plus, some consider it a compliment that the work itself piqued someones interest enough to ask.

But then again the dudes in my crew are all what he'd probably consider middle aged at 38 :p

Millennials.....ugh....;)

I'm 40.

[ripvanrando]

I don't passed too often as most riders here are recreational but when a strong group comes by and if it is a day that I need a good workout but have been lacking mojo, I let them get several hundred yards up the road and (try to) maintain pace but will never, ever join a group without being invited. Unless I'm doing intervals or some hard efforts, passing another rider? "On your left, Good Morning, how you doing today? Have a good ride."

The whole idea behind passing with gusto is to discourage or prevent an unwanted Fred from leaching onto your wheels.

[Cicli]

Is it winter already?

[goonster]

So, you're saying that if a group increases their pace to pass me, then slows down I should turn around and go home?

If the experience bums you out so much that you vent about it online then maybe, yes, you should change your route.

[ripvanrando]

So, you're saying that if a group increases their pace to pass me, then slows down I should turn around and go home?


Just blow by them.

I had a guy that would not get off my wheel even when I slowed to 10 mph. He simply refused even with me asking him. I just stopped and sat down. He moved on and found another wheel to suck.

[Bob Ross]

"Rider up" "Rider up" - repeated through paceline. Hip pat - hand signal. "Passing left". "Last rider" "Great day for a ride". "Jump on if you want."

Seems simple .... ?



I like ^^^this guy. I'll ride with you.

[CampyorBust]

I can understand your need to pass them and play leap frog if that is what you were doing. If there is a rider in front of me my old racing instinct kicks in and I cant be at peace until I do. Freds are fun to toy with, let them latch on and slowly but surely pump up the volume, until you hear a slight hwimper of defeat in the far off distance. There was a guy who did this to me when I was first starting out, I am still trying to track him down and see if I can keep up, he was riding a Fondriest and rocked my fredish little world. Even better loop around and pass them going up hill at 23mph with a friendly howdy.

Groups = group think = decent folk turning into one of the gang, I avoid them. 4everalone!

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/150/505/f30fd24c56e1bcfc926883d6a51d5a00.gif

[EDS]

I think a thread like this generates many different reactions because people have different ideas of what is normal. Living in NYC, on a nice weekend the main roads will have thousands of cyclists and it is impossible to say hi or wave to all of them. It is also inevitable that you will pass someone or someone or some group will pass you.

If I see someone up ahead that is riding predictably I probably will not say on your left when approaching from behind. I may say good morning as I pass, but that is probably it. I do not consider myself to be rude nor am I trying to show someone up or race them (though I will certainly race friends for a town line sprint or the like - but that is part of what makes group rides fun for me as is part of the training we do for the real races we do). Nor do I consider it rude when someone or a group passes me, even if it is a close pass (as long as they are riding predictably). If I am doing intervals, or the other person or group is doing intervals, then some leapfrogging back and forth is expected.

That is just my experience.

[ANAO]

Once you pass them set the cruise control on the power meter for 350W and don't look back.

:eek:

[benb]

I rarely have anything annoying happening.. either I'm doing recover and *everyone* goes by me or I'm not and almost no one is passing me. There are plenty of people faster than me but I think once you get to a certain pace there just aren't enough others out there for us to run into each other often.

I did have one odd encounter in the last month, one of the workouts I do pretty regularly is 10 minutes warmup, 40-60 minutes tempo pace (tends to be about 220w for me, around 19mph average speed?).

Anyway while starting out one of these very long tempo intervals I caught another rider. His non structured pace was probably not that different than mine, we'd have been able to ride together well if we both wanted to. But I caught him while riding tempo, he sped up as if he wanted to trade pulls, but I had to tell him I couldn't as:

- If he was pulling I wasn't working hard enough
- If I was pulling he'd recover and want to go faster than I wanted to go for tempo pace, so he'd eventually come around me, but he wasn't strong enough to hold it long and not fast enough for me to not be in recovery following him.

Weird situation, but we weren't weird about it, I just mentioned to him I was trying to hold a very steady pace and couldn't really take the rest intervals. We ended up splitting up soon so it didn't stay too weird.

Kind of interesting as like I said, it would have been fun to work together. We'd probably have averaged 20-21mph pace. That would not be nearly as hard a workout as riding solo as planned though.

[Seramount]

if a group causes concern or grief to a rider, it seems incredibly simple to just alter the pace or route a little and let them mosey on down the road.

the whole 'sprinting past them as the light turns green' seems really lame.

[FlashUNC]

This is the kissing cousin of the "do you wave or not" thread.

[cloudguy]

my tattoos are for me.


:eek:

[Bruce K]

Feeling a bit like a deceased equine here....

BK

[Tony T]

Just blow by them.


Well, I did and didn't look back. I was not expecting the "leader" to pass me a 2nd time, which led to one of his group getting too close to my bars. Hell, the group slowed, why would I think they would speed-up just to pass me again? (and I say "just to pass me" as they slowed again after the pass).

I wasn't certain the leader was a dickhead until he "raised his arms in victory" — at that point the instinct to blow past him again kicked in. Amazing that a few found this lame but are ok with the leader raising his arms. Group defense even after the ride I guess.

I should consider myself lucky, as this is the first time this happened. Many groups have passed me by, some with warning, some without (and that's ok), just never encountered such poor behavior by a group before (just the leader, really). My only real surprise was the amount of justification and defense of his actions that I encountered here (although a majority of the comments seem to see my point of view).


http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=103379&stc=1&d=1349463808

[Bruce K]

Yup, nothing more to see here.

Move along.....:D

BK

[gdw]

Damn, I was hoping someone would post a picture of livingminimal's tats so we could stare at them without upsetting him.:banana:

[Tandem Rider]

:eek:

I'm feeling a little inadequate too, hangs head.

[livingminimal]

Damn, I was hoping someone would post a picture of livingminimal's tats so we could stare at them without upsetting him.:banana:

hahaha. paging beatnik.
Just kidding dude. don't post.

[livingminimal]

:eek:

Oh please. Save it, toolbox. I eschewed a potentially extremely lucrative career to dump my skillset on the Non-Profit world to help the homeless and poor. I don't say any of that to earn any brownie points, but your pointing out my use of "me" around my tattoos solidifies your moronic viewpoints.

[Bruce K]

And since you guys want to make it personal, we're done.

BK