European Cycling Destinations: Help Us Select Where to Cycle

[pjmsj21]

My wife and I are planning to spend a week to ten days cycling somewhere in Europe next year. Destinations under consideration have been Ireland, Italy and France.

But in reality we are open to other destinations as well and welcome your suggestions. About the only criteria that is important is that we do appreciate lightly travelled roads being spoiled Oregon riders.

Any thoughts from those riders that have spent time cycling in Europe?

Pat Mc

[velotel]

My perspective probably won't be much help because I live here as opposed to someone who comes for a visit. Never been to Ireland so no comments on that. I was once for a couple of days in York in northern UK with my bike and had a wonderful time, good roads, polite drivers, weather was good too. They also speak a form of english if that is a criterion for you.

Between Italy and France my preference for riding remains France, and not because I live here. French drivers as a rule give cyclists way more room than italian drivers. French roads are in much better shape than italian roads. Note that the reference here is to the small roads, not the highways. France also has a much larger road system, around 1,400,000 kilometers of paved secondary roads, and when I say secondary I do mean secondary. I've always said that someone could be dropped off just about anywhere in France with a bike and no map and roll off and have a fantastic ride. Italy has vastly more dirt/gravel roads that are way fun to ride. Maps for riding in France are much better than what's available for Italy. I'm always frustrated in Italy because I can rarely find a map with a scale less than 1:200,000 whereas in France 1:100,000 is common plus for certain regions, usually the mountains, maps with 1:75,000 scale are available.

In my opinion food is better in Italy. I think it's also easier to find some really interesting lodging options in Italy, like agriturismo's, renovated farms transformed into hotels for a loose translation. I've stayed in some good ones. Bakeries are better in France. Tourist offices with lots of info are better in France and they're all over the place.

Italian culture is wonderful, more relaxed than in France. The italian cities are much more interesting than french cities in my opinion, also much older. Italians as a rule are perhaps a bit more open and friendly than the french, or that's what I've found. Not sure that's a valid statement because since I speak french and only a very, very, very little bit of italian how the french and italians react to me is different than would be in your case.

Driving is easier in France than Italy, roads better marked, drivers more constrained.

Your question is so broad that outside of the above there's really nothing more I can say as a response. Plus as stated, my viewpoint as someone who lives here is completely different from someone who flies in for a week or so. And speaking of which, I'd say no matter where you go, take at least two weeks. A week is way too short. First couple of days lost just making the transition. Longer gives you the time to settle in and get used to the rhythms a little.

Italy has some interesting bike/hotel options I've seen mentioned at various times.

Cheers

[verticaldoug]

If you can provide a little more guidance....

1. Do you want to set up a base at a B&B, then explore the surround countryside over several days?
2. Do you plan to haul your stuff on the panniers and travel cross country from point to point? Do you want B&B along the way, or are you bringing a tent?
3. Or do you just want to spend more money and go on an organized tour?
4. What is your optimal daily mileage?

[holliscx]

I would suggest cycling one of the Camino de Santiago routes in Spain. I've walked one and cycled two feel free to DM. Avoid the Camino Frances (French Way) in high summer on bicycles; the Camino del Norte has a lot of climbing so depending on your fitness. But the infrastructure along the Camino is a big help when touring because you can travel with a very basic setup, lodge economically, and enjoy beautiful idyllic roads. My wife is from Santiago de Compostela so I usually do a big ride in the summer and arrive on two wheels while the family flies; I'm looking into riding the Via de la Plata from Sevilla to Santiago this summer. I don't recommend the Portuguese route which I rode last summer for there is endless pave through small villages which really took its toll and wasn't even off-road. The Caminos are tough but rewarding on a bicycle, be prepared to earn your pilgrim's menu each day. Buen Camino.

[rbtmcardle]

I am here in the hills of Tuscany staying at Castello delle Serre for a business trip and have already decided to come next summer for a cycling vacation. For me, the hills of Tuscany offer both the cycling, tourist and most importantly the food/wine that I crave.

The castle is owned by a transplanted California restauranteur, is relatively reasonable and within a short drive of so many beautiful places.

Www.castellodelleserre.com




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[R3awak3n]

I have never done but have been wanting to cycle through all of Portugal. Definitely not as knows for cycling as say Italy or France but the people are wonderful, the food is amazing and its as beautiful. On the upside you can visit the whole country in 10 days since its small enough, weather is usually very decent and its very cheap. It will be my first cycling destination in Europe when I do it but then again I do have tons of family in Portugal.

I was looking for websites and found this:

http://pedalportugal.com/touring-routes-2/

it has day rides, touring rides and some really good information.

[phcollard]

May I suggest the Belgian Ardennes? To me that means cycling paradise but I am a bit biased.

I can suggest you a couple lovely rides there (have the GPS files).

[Mr. Pink]

My perspective probably won't be much help because I live here as opposed to someone who comes for a visit. Never been to Ireland so no comments on that. I was once for a couple of days in York in northern UK with my bike and had a wonderful time, good roads, polite drivers, weather was good too. They also speak a form of english if that is a criterion for you.

Between Italy and France my preference for riding remains France, and not because I live here. French drivers as a rule give cyclists way more room than italian drivers. French roads are in much better shape than italian roads. Note that the reference here is to the small roads, not the highways. France also has a much larger road system, around 1,400,000 kilometers of paved secondary roads, and when I say secondary I do mean secondary. I've always said that someone could be dropped off just about anywhere in France with a bike and no map and roll off and have a fantastic ride. Italy has vastly more dirt/gravel roads that are way fun to ride. Maps for riding in France are much better than what's available for Italy. I'm always frustrated in Italy because I can rarely find a map with a scale less than 1:200,000 whereas in France 1:100,000 is common plus for certain regions, usually the mountains, maps with 1:75,000 scale are available.

In my opinion food is better in Italy. I think it's also easier to find some really interesting lodging options in Italy, like agriturismo's, renovated farms transformed into hotels for a loose translation. I've stayed in some good ones. Bakeries are better in France. Tourist offices with lots of info are better in France and they're all over the place.

Italian culture is wonderful, more relaxed than in France. The italian cities are much more interesting than french cities in my opinion, also much older. Italians as a rule are perhaps a bit more open and friendly than the french, or that's what I've found. Not sure that's a valid statement because since I speak french and only a very, very, very little bit of italian how the french and italians react to me is different than would be in your case.

Driving is easier in France than Italy, roads better marked, drivers more constrained.

Your question is so broad that outside of the above there's really nothing more I can say as a response. Plus as stated, my viewpoint as someone who lives here is completely different from someone who flies in for a week or so. And speaking of which, I'd say no matter where you go, take at least two weeks. A week is way too short. First couple of days lost just making the transition. Longer gives you the time to settle in and get used to the rhythms a little.

Italy has some interesting bike/hotel options I've seen mentioned at various times.

Cheers


Awesome, Velotel, thanks. Much to ponder.

Does France have any hotels like this?: http://www.hotelscoiattolo.com

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g1642784-d1756666-Reviews-Hotel_Ristorante_Lo_Scoiattolo-Pralormo_Province_of_Turin_Piedmont.html

Or this?: http://www.belvederericcione.com

Of course, since you live there, you are probably not the one to ask. It's like when somebody asks me about hotels in Manhattan. I never use them.


I was in Italy driving around Tuscany this time last year, and was awfully impressed with the roads and just the beauty of the place. Volterra and it surrounding countryside is something to see. But, the Italian drivers are something at times. They don't hesitate to pass in interesting places on two lane roads, which makes me wonder how safe it really is to bike there at times.

[texbike]

Broken record here, but check out Annecy, France. It's an easy drive (or train ride) from the Geneva airport. The riding and scenery is fantastic. Plenty of options for places to stay from campgrounds, Gites, B&Bs, to 5 star hotels. Castles, monasteries, great restaurants, a beautiful lake and a LOT more. You can easily ride to Switzerland and even Italy. If you're not quite as adventurous, there's a nice loop/path around the lake.

It's become a regular destination for us due to it's ease of access, great cycling options, and variety of things to do.

Texbike

[Mr. Pink]

Broken record here, but check out Annecy, France. It's an easy drive (or train ride) from the Geneva airport. The riding and scenery is fantastic. Plenty of options for places to stay from campgrounds, Gites, B&Bs, to 5 star hotels. Castles, monasteries, great restaurants, a beautiful lake and a LOT more. You can easily ride to Switzerland and even Italy. If you're not quite as adventurous, there's a nice loop/path around the lake.

It's become a regular destination for us due to it's ease of access, great cycling options, and variety of things to do.

Texbike

Tex, is the riding all climbing, or, is there some rolling hills in there? I know that there is one ride around the lake that is fairly flat (TT in the tour). Are there any others, or is it all climbing?

[Lionel]

Question is a bit vague. What time a year ? What type of riding ?

If mostly climbing, Barcelonette is a great base in Hautes Alpes.

Anywhere in the Luberon would be another awesome base (outside of mid July mid August). You can have a 5 stars experience in many different hotels there if this is what you are looking for.

[texbike]

Tex, is the riding all climbing, or, is there some rolling hills in there? I know that there is one ride around the lake that is fairly flat (TT in the tour). Are there any others, or is it all climbing?

The best rides include climbing but there are routes around the lake or through the nearby valleys that are flatter. As an example, it's a pretty easy, fairly flat ride to Albertville which opens up more potential flat routes within the valley.

Texbike

[Mr. Pink]

I'd like to hear if anyone has been to Girona in Spain, where a lot of pros live. Hop and a skip to Barcelona.

[RonW87]

First time cycling in Europe? Start with either Tuscany or Provence. No brainer. Really.

[pjmsj21]

OP here and my apologies for not providing more context.

Thus we are looking to use a cycling specific tour company as we like the idea of joining a group. We are older riders at 65, but reasonably serious riders looking for daily rides in the 35-65 mile range. We enjoy hills but probably aren't interested in doing the historic climbs as a group.

Because my wife works in education we are looking at a time frame from mid June to mid-September.

The thought would be to spend one week on a cycling tour with 3-4 days before and after the cycling doing some non cycling sightseeing in perhaps a different country or area.

Thanks for all of the really great feedback so far!!!!

[thunderworks]

I spent a week riding near Aix en Provence two years ago. This year I spent a week riding near a small Italian town about an hour south of Pisa. I know it's a very limited sample and experience, but I was much happier in rural Italy than near Aix. I thought the Italian roads were every bit as good as the French roads. The drivers were fine in both countries. The food was better in Italy and I felt the Italian people were friendlier too.

I'd go back to Tuscany in a heartbeat. France . . . Nah . . .

[echelon_john]

My family has a place in Tuscany that we rent if you're interested. Near Lucca, very close to the sea. Amazing riding, easy to get to Florence, Cinque Terre, etc.

http://www.vrbo.com/458345

More price flexibility when it's not high summer season; fall's an awesome time to ride there.

Not too far from where this was filmed:
http://vimeo.com/48158576

[rain dogs]

I've cycled in pretty much every major country in Europe, and I tell everyone who asks this question to ask THIS question instead:

"When you're not cycling, what do you want to do/see?"

That'll make it much easier... because there is good to excellent cycling almost everywhere

[tumbler]

I'd like to hear if anyone has been to Girona in Spain, where a lot of pros live. Hop and a skip to Barcelona.

I visited 2 years ago, but did not cycle on the trip. It's a beautiful city with great food and lots to see and do. The surrounding landscape looked ripe for cycling, plus as you mentioned, it's an hour and a half drive or 40 min train to Barcelona. This old Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/travel/12girona.html) has some good info on the cycling culture there.

[bikinchris]

There used to be a hotel at the foot of the Pyrenees where you had a locker for your bike and you could do routes from the hotel into some of the most famous climbs of the TdF. We based out of there for one of our TdF days for the Tourmalet climb. I believe it was in Bagnères-de-Bigorre.

Personally, we like Netherlands. Flat. Decent food. Everyone speaks perfect English.

[pjmsj21]

OP here......actually we were considering the Scandinavian countries as well.

[verticaldoug]

Thus we are looking to use a cycling specific tour company as we like the idea of joining a group. We are older riders at 65, but reasonably serious riders looking for daily rides in the 35-65 mile range. We enjoy hills but probably aren't interested in doing the historic climbs as a group.

Because my wife works in education we are looking at a time frame from mid June to mid-September.



I think a good option is a self guided tour in somewhere like Pembrokeshire in Wales, or maybe Devon area of England. The roads and the landscape are both really under appreciated.

[Mr. Pink]

I visited 2 years ago, but did not cycle on the trip. It's a beautiful city with great food and lots to see and do. The surrounding landscape looked ripe for cycling, plus as you mentioned, it's an hour and a half drive or 40 min train to Barcelona. This old Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/travel/12girona.html) has some good info on the cycling culture there.

Thanks. I forgot about that article. Good stuff.

[MadRocketSci]

the French bike b&b's i'm aware of (closest thing to the italy bike hotels like the Belvedere) are VeloVercors in the Vercors region and VeloPyrenees in the Pyrenees (seems you can add "velo" to any region to find an outfit :)) and i believe there is also one in Bourg-D'Oisans (by Huez).

[jblande]

Black Forest has some of the finest cycling I can imagine.

[MadRocketSci]

OP here and my apologies for not providing more context.

Thus we are looking to use a cycling specific tour company as we like the idea of joining a group. We are older riders at 65, but reasonably serious riders looking for daily rides in the 35-65 mile range. We enjoy hills but probably aren't interested in doing the historic climbs as a group.

Because my wife works in education we are looking at a time frame from mid June to mid-September.

The thought would be to spend one week on a cycling tour with 3-4 days before and after the cycling doing some non cycling sightseeing in perhaps a different country or area.

Thanks for all of the really great feedback so far!!!!

for a first trip, i'd go to the Belvedere. You can spend some time beforehand in Tuscany or wherever and it's an easy train trip from Florence to Riccione (be sure to pronounce it Reeshee-onay, not Rickee-onay, otherwise you might get some startled looks from the locals :)). After the trip fly out of Bologna (easy train from Riccione) and enjoy the awesome food there. My opinion only but I'm underwhelmed by the food in Tuscany. Except Pizzeria Charlie in Orvieto, whoda thunk.

Belvedere bike season is March-May and Sept-Oct. You can still ride from there in the midsummer season but there will be mostly italian families there on beach holidays.

[texbike]

I believe it was in Bagnères-de-Bigorre.



Another great suggestion. We've done Bagneres as well a couple of times and absolutely loved it. The town itself is very pretty with great access to riding, good restaurants in town, and fantastic outdoor activities and historical sites in the area.

Wales. The roads and the landscape are both really under appreciated.

Agreed. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to ride in Wales but one of my all-time favorite trips was one to the Snowdonia area where we either walked or used public transportation to go everywhere. It was one of the greenest, most beautiful places that we've ever been to. Tons of history and outdoor activities, plenty of places to stay, and decent (but not great) food. The lamb with mint sauce seemed especially fresh there... ;)

Texbike

[malcolm]

I think the belvedere cycling hotel in Italy has already been mentioned, but it has always interested me although I've not made it yet. I think someone from here has done it and talked about it years ago but I can't remember who it was.

[dave thompson]

I think the belvedere cycling hotel in Italy has already been mentioned, but it has always interested me although I've not made it yet. I think someone from here has done it and talked about it years ago but I can't remember who it was.

That probably would be me. My wife and I went in 2007. As much as we have travelled and biked, I must say the week we spent at the Belvedere was one of the top vacations I've ever spent, anywhere, for any reason. We're going back in two years.

[Mr. Pink]

for a first trip, i'd go to the Belvedere. You can spend some time beforehand in Tuscany or wherever and it's an easy train trip from Florence to Riccione (be sure to pronounce it Reeshee-onay, not Rickee-onay, otherwise you might get some startled looks from the locals :)). After the trip fly out of Bologna (easy train from Riccione) and enjoy the awesome food there. My opinion only but I'm underwhelmed by the food in Tuscany. Except Pizzeria Charlie in Orvieto, whoda thunk.

Belvedere bike season is March-May and Sept-Oct. You can still ride from there in the midsummer season but there will be mostly italian families there on beach holidays.

Did you stay there?

[MadRocketSci]

Did you stay there?

yes i was just there this past Oct...

[Kirk007]

Thus we are looking to use a cycling specific tour company as we like the idea of joining a group. We are older riders at 65, but reasonably serious riders looking for daily rides in the 35-65 mile range. We enjoy hills but probably aren't interested in doing the historic climbs as a group.

Thanks for all of the really great feedback so far!!!!

I'd check out Andy Hampsten's company - cinghiale.com. It sounds like one of their tours that sticks around the Z'Martino and does cooking etc could be good.

[Look585]

I'd check out Andy Hampsten's company - cinghiale.com. It sounds like one of their tours that sticks around the Z'Martino and does cooking etc could be good.

The riding around Andy's base in Castegneto Carducci (coastal Tuscany) is magical. There are options for flatter coastal rides, moderately hilly just to the east, and very hilly if you cross over to central Tuscany. Access is easy with the Pisa airport just an hour north.

We did a week (unsupported) based on the routes linked below. I'm sure Andy's company would have some even more undiscovered gems on the cycling itinerary and mix in non-cycling stuff (e.g. cooking classes, Bolgheri wine tours, etc.).

http://www.costadeglietruschi.it/mediterranean_tuscany/cartagrande.pdf

[Mr. Pink]

Wow, is that map available in English? Awesome.

[pjmsj21]

The riding around Andy's base in Castegneto Carducci (coastal Tuscany) is magical. There are options for flatter coastal rides, moderately hilly just to the east, and very hilly if you cross over to central Tuscany. Access is easy with the Pisa airport just an hour north.

We did a week (unsupported) based on the routes linked below. I'm sure Andy's company would have some even more undiscovered gems on the cycling itinerary and mix in non-cycling stuff (e.g. cooking classes, Bolgheri wine tours, etc.).

http://www.costadeglietruschi.it/mediterranean_tuscany/cartagrande.pdf

OP here again....I saw this in our hunt for information and have an email into them to check availability......it looks very interesting.

[christian]

OP here......actually we were considering the Scandinavian countries as well.Hi, I'm Swedish. Reconsider.

[Bob Ross]

Thus we are looking to use a cycling specific tour company as we like the idea of joining a group. We are older riders at 65, but reasonably serious riders looking for daily rides in the 35-65 mile range. We enjoy hills but probably aren't interested in doing the historic climbs as a group.

Because my wife works in education we are looking at a time frame from mid June to mid-September.


Two years ago my wife and I did ABCycle (http://www.abcycle.org/)'s tour of Sardegna in July. I cannot recommend them highly enough; I think it's fair to say that trip was the highlight of our cycling lives! Fantastic riding, fantastic food, fantastic accomodations...and Angelo & Anna Marie, the folks who run ABCycle, are some of the warmest, most genuine people I've ever met. I'd go again in a heartbeat.

[Look585]

Wow, is that map available in English? Awesome.

I think so, email the tourist info and I think there is a hard copy.

Also, you can click thru the various routes on the list (link below) for English descriptions and more detailed maps.

http://www.costadeglietruschi.it/mediterranean_tuscany/percorsi_cicloturistici.asp

BTW, if anyone does "Route 20", we were given a detour by a local at a coffee shop. The road thru the Riserva Statale Marsiliana (SP143) outside Massa Marittima was the finest 10 miles of cycling I've ever pedaled.

[poff]

French roads are in much better shape than italian roads. Note that the reference here is to the small roads, not the highways. France also has a much larger road system, around 1,400,000 kilometers of paved secondary roads, and when I say secondary I do mean secondary. I've always said that someone could be dropped off just about anywhere in France with a bike and no map and roll off and have a fantastic ride. Italy has vastly more dirt/gravel roads that are way fun to ride. Maps for riding in France are much better than what's available for Italy. I'm always frustrated in Italy because I can rarely find a map with a scale less than 1:200,000 whereas in France 1:100,000 is common plus for certain regions, usually the mountains, maps with 1:75,000 scale are available.



Roads in Sud Tyrol are better than in French Alps IMHO, the major ones at least: Stelvio, Gavia, San Marco, Mendola, anything in Dolomites.

[rain dogs]

So far you have "Go to France" , "Go to Italy", "Go to Spain", "Go to Germany", "Go to...."

Hope that's helping you.

When are you going? < That is an important question re: climate, tourism, culture etc.

Why are you going? < Is it a bike trip first, and tourism second? or Vice versa?

If you want the country most likely to give you the highest probability of a successful bike-focused trip (good weather, good sites, good cycling, good variety, good history, good food, good people) go to Spain.

[Kirk007]

So far you have "Go to France" , "Go to Italy", "Go to Spain", "Go to Germany", "Go to...."

Hope that's helping you.

When are you going? < That is an important question re: climate, tourism, culture etc.

Why are you going? < Is it a bike trip first, and tourism second? or Vice versa?

If you want the country most likely to give you the highest probability of a successful bike-focused trip (good weather, good sites, good cycling, good variety, good history, good food, good people) go to Spain.

Well, the tour company chosen might make as big a difference to the OP as the place etc. Andy's ops are top notch as are Glenn Erickson's, which cover multiple countries, but they are typically higher mileage and longer than OP was looking for (best bang for $$ though that I've seen for a fully supported, traveling tour).

[pjmsj21]

OP here again....it looks as if we are starting to narrow down our destination to Italy. We are looking for destinations for a week to 10 days of riding where we stay in one location and use it as a base to do daily rides out of.

A friend has recommended Your Cycling Italia (http://www.yourcyclingitalia.com/bike2/). Does anyone have any experience with Your Cycling Italia and or can anyone suggest other similar base hotel operations in Italy that we should consider?

[schwa86]

I did a week two years ago. Awesome trip. Bill was a very nice guy who definitely took us places we would not have otherwise found. Post re the week here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=110967

[oldpotatoe]

The riding around Andy's base in Castegneto Carducci (coastal Tuscany) is magical. There are options for flatter coastal rides, moderately hilly just to the east, and very hilly if you cross over to central Tuscany. Access is easy with the Pisa airport just an hour north.

We did a week (unsupported) based on the routes linked below. I'm sure Andy's company would have some even more undiscovered gems on the cycling itinerary and mix in non-cycling stuff (e.g. cooking classes, Bolgheri wine tours, etc.).

http://www.costadeglietruschi.it/mediterranean_tuscany/cartagrande.pdf

Ship(USN CV) pulled into Livorno and me and 2 others rode around the area, late 80s. To say it was spectaculor is a huge understatement. A couple of days from Livorno to Pisa and back. Motorpaced once by a 3 wheeled bread truck..magical.

[PaMtbRider]

Does anyone offer 2 week tours other than Glenn Erickson? Most all the tour companies only offer a 1 week tour and they typically cost as much as 2 weeks with Glenn. We have ridden on 2 Erickson cycle tours, France and Switzerland. I would highly recommend them for the serious cyclist looking for more than 2-3 hours of riding per day. Unfortunately I am not sure how much longer he will be leading tours do to health issues.

[Mr. Pink]

OP here again....it looks as if we are starting to narrow down our destination to Italy. We are looking for destinations for a week to 10 days of riding where we stay in one location and use it as a base to do daily rides out of.

A friend has recommended Your Cycling Italia (http://www.yourcyclingitalia.com/bike2/). Does anyone have any experience with Your Cycling Italia and or can anyone suggest other similar base hotel operations in Italy that we should consider?

This: http://www.belvederericcione.com/en/bike-hotel-italy/34-0.html and this: http://www.piedmontbikehotel.com/en/home.htm

[mosca]

My perspective probably won't be much help because I live here as opposed to someone who comes for a visit. Never been to Ireland so no comments on that. I was once for a couple of days in York in northern UK with my bike and had a wonderful time, good roads, polite drivers, weather was good too. They also speak a form of english if that is a criterion for you.

Between Italy and France my preference for riding remains France, and not because I live here. French drivers as a rule give cyclists way more room than italian drivers. French roads are in much better shape than italian roads. Note that the reference here is to the small roads, not the highways. France also has a much larger road system, around 1,400,000 kilometers of paved secondary roads, and when I say secondary I do mean secondary. I've always said that someone could be dropped off just about anywhere in France with a bike and no map and roll off and have a fantastic ride. Italy has vastly more dirt/gravel roads that are way fun to ride. Maps for riding in France are much better than what's available for Italy. I'm always frustrated in Italy because I can rarely find a map with a scale less than 1:200,000 whereas in France 1:100,000 is common plus for certain regions, usually the mountains, maps with 1:75,000 scale are available.

In my opinion food is better in Italy. I think it's also easier to find some really interesting lodging options in Italy, like agriturismo's, renovated farms transformed into hotels for a loose translation. I've stayed in some good ones. Bakeries are better in France. Tourist offices with lots of info are better in France and they're all over the place.

Italian culture is wonderful, more relaxed than in France. The italian cities are much more interesting than french cities in my opinion, also much older. Italians as a rule are perhaps a bit more open and friendly than the french, or that's what I've found. Not sure that's a valid statement because since I speak french and only a very, very, very little bit of italian how the french and italians react to me is different than would be in your case.

Driving is easier in France than Italy, roads better marked, drivers more constrained.

Your question is so broad that outside of the above there's really nothing more I can say as a response. Plus as stated, my viewpoint as someone who lives here is completely different from someone who flies in for a week or so. And speaking of which, I'd say no matter where you go, take at least two weeks. A week is way too short. First couple of days lost just making the transition. Longer gives you the time to settle in and get used to the rhythms a little.

Italy has some interesting bike/hotel options I've seen mentioned at various times.

Cheers
My experiences as a tourist in France and Italy align perfectly with Velotel's comments as a resident, fwiw. IMO France gets the edge for riding, Italy for the people and food. If you are not too concerned about bagging storied cols, Provence is mighty hard to beat - amazing roads, terrain, and scenery. And some great Italian food can be had there too.;)

[oldpotatoe]

Italian culture is wonderful, more relaxed than in France. The italian cities are much more interesting than french cities in my opinion, also much older. Italians as a rule are perhaps a bit more open and friendly than the french, or that's what I've found. Not sure that's a valid statement because since I speak french and only a very, very, very little bit of italian how the french and italians react to me is different than would be in your case.

Italy has some interesting bike/hotel options I've seen mentioned at various times.

Cheers

Sorry to snip so much. You LIVE there after all, BUT..

Highlighted part VERY valid, IMHO..and you speak french to boot. Not speaking french or speaking spanish, or english, a big issue in france. IMHO, again. In Italy, not so much.

[pjmsj21]

OP here again with another question on Italian and French riding terrain.

While some riders enjoy long ten or fifteen mile mountain climbs with long descents, my wife and I enjoy shorter hills of say a couple of miles.

Can anyone with riding experience fill me in on the typical terrain of northern Italy and Provence realizing that examples of all kinds of terrain can be found in either country?

[djg]

I love Italy but don't really have cycling experience there. One of these days.

I really like riding (and hanging out) in southern France. Provence is great . . . over to the Ventoux (still Provence) or even the Alps. Good roads, fairly predictable (and much of the year really nice) weather, good food (really good groceries and good inexpensive wine). Plenty of touristy things to mix it up.

[djg]

OP here again with another question on Italian and French riding terrain.

While some riders enjoy long ten or fifteen mile mountain climbs with long descents, my wife and I enjoy shorter hills of say a couple of miles.

Can anyone with riding experience fill me in on the typical terrain of northern Italy and Provence realizing that examples of all kinds of terrain can be found in either country?

Others will be able to provide more details, but I think that Provence would suit you well. There's a good mix of riding -- plenty of flat rides available, as well as smaller climbs. When we stayed near St. Rémy de Provence, the big neighborhood climb was maybe 1000 vertical feet up to les Baux. The Ventoux is huge but it's really an outlier in terms of Provence geography. Mostly you've got smaller ridges, valleys, rollers. There are some stiff hills around Nice and in other places, but they are hills. Apart from the Ventoux, the huge classic climbs are East or Northeast of Provence, in the Alps, or way over to the Pyrenees. I think you can take your pick.

[bikemoore]

After living there for 5 years in the 1990s, I'm very partial to the far northeast corner of Italy (the Friuli region). Beautiful big mountains (the Carnian Alps and Dolomites of Italy, Austria, and Slovenia), vineyards, smaller hills, flat farmland, quaint towns, incredible views, great food, and minor roads everywhere. I return as often as I can manage for cycling holidays and if given any place in the world to move to, I would move there in a flash and be content to spend the rest of my life there. I've lived and cycled in northern and southern Italy, France, Germany, the United Kingdom, and the USA (I'm US military and have been incredibly fortunate in overseas assignments over the last 25 years) and I think northeast Italy is, hands down, the best. I think the best source of online knowledge of the cycling there is found here: http://dolomiti-friulane.blogspot.de. I don't personally know the keeper of this blog, but he is living the life that I lived in the 1990s and provides an incredible view of the exact same rides that I used to do.

[rain dogs]

OP here again with another question on Italian and French riding terrain.

While some riders enjoy long ten or fifteen mile mountain climbs with long descents, my wife and I enjoy shorter hills of say a couple of miles.

Can anyone with riding experience fill me in on the typical terrain of northern Italy and Provence realizing that examples of all kinds of terrain can be found in either country?

Going to Northern Italy + being a couple who "enjoy shorter hills" is like going to a steakhouse and ordering a salad. Sure, you can enjoy the ambiance with both dishes, but...

You can find anything anywhere as you've said, but Northern Italy is very populated, very congested until you get into the Alps/dolomites, but those are big, steep, big, very enjoyable steaks.

Bluntly: You're doing this ass-backwards.

I've said this previously: If you're open to such a massive geographical area ("Western Europe") Answer what kind of trip you want and then find the destination/Tour that suits. You'll have a far better time than if you pick a random "cycling" destination and then try and make your "round hole" tour fit into a potentially "square peg" region.

[mosca]

My experience is far from comprehensive but I'll second what djg said; I think Provence would work for you. Lots of rolling terrain and 15 to 30 minute climbs but not backbreakers unless you climb Ventoux (which you should, really;)). I'm told Tuscany is similar but haven't been there myself.

If you're doing a supported tour, they should provide info on their routes, and usually options of distance/difficulty each day.

[bocarider]

My wife and I have ridden in France (Provence, Alps, Dordogne, Brittany/Normandy, and Bordeaux), Italy (Tuscany, Piedmont and Emilia Romagna) and other parts of Europe a lot over the past 20 years. We have used organized tour companies, including Backroads, Trek Travel, and Duvine, worked with self guided touring companies that provided us with routes, organized hotels and luggage transfer (in Slovenia and Corsica) and gone completely on our own, using a rental car, basing ourselves in different towns and finding bike routes on ridewithgps.com, mapmyride.com and bikeroute.net.

If this is your first time doing a bike trip, then I suggest you go with one of the organized bike tour companies - you will have a lot of fun with not a lot of the hassles of self planned/self guided/self supported touring. Going with a touring company will take all of the hard parts out of the trip, like travel logistics, finding hotels, transfers and finding bike routes that are doable at your level of cycling, whatever it may be. You just show up, get on the bike, follow the cue sheet or gpx route and have fun. If you get lost, have a flat or mechanical you cannot fix, or find yourself in a bad situation with a climb that is too much for you to handle, you just call for help or wait for the sag van. The hotels are usually top quality and the food is generally pretty good, with chances to find your own lunches and some dinners, which can be excellent.

There are trade offs - self guided or self planned gives you a lot of freedom and flexibility to go and do what you want when you want, but it does add a layer of anxiety and a lot pre-trip research and preparation. You have to find everything on your own – where to go, where to stay, how to get there and where to ride. You are on your own, and being unsupported is OK, so long as nothing goes really wrong. I took a bad and stupid fall last summer in Corsica and dealing with a French emergency room that on my own, not speaking French was difficult. Using the touring company means you are spending time with potentially a large group of people and are at the mercy of the schedule of the tour. It's a tough call - we have had some of our best rides/experiences when we were on our own and some of our worst. This past summer we road Mt. Ventoux on our own and it was amazing.

We usually do a week on our own, picking our own hotels, planning the bike routes and moving ourselves around with a rental car, followed by a week with one of the organized touring companies, so we get the best (and worst) of both approaches.

As far as where to go, I always agree with Velotel – the riding in France is perhaps the best anywhere. The food in Italy edges out France, but not by a lot. If you are looking for moderately challenging riding, but beautiful scenery and amazing food, then seriously consider the Piedmont region of Italy. Tuscany is played out. The Piedmont has everything you could want – rolling hills with moderate climbs, beautiful countryside and just amazing food. Take a serious look at Backroads, Trek and even VBT (we have never travelled with VBT, but have met people on our trips that have and have liked it). I think you get good value for your dollars between the hotels, food, bike routes and support.