Production Trend -Steel Bikes and Wide Tires - Your Thoughts

[RFC]

I admit, I've been bitten.

In the last four months, I picked up a Surly Cross Check as my allarounder SS bomber, followed by the more roadish, but still wide tire, BMC Road. And, despite the fact that I have a number of very nice skinny tired road machines, I have been almost exclusively riding the CC and BMC.

The market has also reacted to this trend, with both big and small manufacturers offering wide tire steel.

I have my own thoughts about what may be driving the trend, but am interested in yours.

Is this the revenge of Grant Petersen and the Elves?

Oh, and as always, your photos are encouraged: Here are mine, which you've seen before.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0484r_zps17a5a362.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0484r_zps17a5a362.jpg.html)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0432r_zpsed6b734a.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0432r_zpsed6b734a.jpg.html)

[MattTuck]

Well, people are either being very independent minded and demanding the kind of products they want to use; or they are being led like sheep to a new product category that is different enough from what they have that they can be convinced to shell out cash for a new bike.

I am not really sure which it is that is driving the trend, perhaps some of both. What I am sure about is that it is a healthy rebuke of the gram obsessed racer types in favor of bikes that can handle more than smooth tarmac.

[charliedid]

Not just steel.

I have sold a few BMC Granfondo's (Carbon and Alum) and a number of Trek Domane (Carbon and Alum) bikes this season.

"Endurance Road" is a thing now.

[scho74]

what size tires are on those bikes?

i'm switching out my road to 25mm pro4s on 23mm rims, which will probably balloon to about 28mm.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/8711733912_9409f9117d_b.jpg

my crosshairs has 35mm schwalbe duremes also on 23mm rims, which are very comfortable.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8262/8684507318_0cb508d56c_b.jpg

[RFC]

BMC -- 32 Gators

CC -- 28 Gators

[GRAVELBIKE]

No good will come of this.

Next thing you know, people will be venturing off the paved roads and onto *GASP* dirt or gravel...

[mktng]

damn posted wrong pic

[Ken Robb]

I have been a fan of these kinds of bikes for years. There are 3 Rivendells plus a Strada Bianca in our garage. Just because they allow fat tires doesn't mean I couldn't run 700x20 tires if I wanted to so there is no down side for me.

The condition of our roads has gotten a lot worse over the last 10 years as well so this reinforces the appeal of fatter tires.

[Peter B]

Can't speak to 'trends' but I'm having fun on this one of late.

[reggiebaseball]

as car usage diminishes in the current generation
more and more people are cycling to commute

It makes sense to have steel frames for durability and comfort (and price), and larger tires (for durability and comfort), and fender clearance --

so it does not surprise me at all that bike companies would be trending that way.

I can say that as I age I am "trending" this way in my tastes.

[bicimechanic]

I've been riding around on this lately. 1994ish SLX and plenty of room for Challenge 30mm tires. I like it. And yes, I do ride it with pedals. I do see a lot more folks asking for more tire/fender clearance. I've always preferred it.

[lhuerta]

I have never in my nearly 35 years or road riding (from racing to all around riding) purchased a tire narrower then 25c (actual width). So as I see it, this is not a trend.
Lou

[Kirk007]

Well, I went real wide - 29er 2.1" wide - love my Singular "humvee" for just getting around our crappy roads, turning onto gravel and dirt paths, not to techy single track etc.

I run 28-32s on my one Kirk, love that as well. Really comfortable ride and with fenders is a great year around go about anywhere a road bike can take you.

But jumping on the Peg Marcelo with 25s, that is a whole different ride entirely.
This one makes me want to ride faster, harder, to get lean and tan and sit at an outdoor cafe with an espresso doing an impression of Mario (which of course would be impossible in any event, but particularly so for someone with very little hair on their head).

They're all good. Different horses for different courses.

[retrogrouchy]

I admit, I've been bitten.

In the last four months, I picked up a Surly Cross Check as my allarounder SS bomber, followed by the more roadish, but still wide tire, BMC Road. And, despite the fact that I have a number of very nice skinny tired road machines, I have been almost exclusively riding the CC and BMC.

The market has also reacted to this trend, with both big and small manufacturers offering wide tire steel.

I have my own thoughts about what may be driving the trend, but am interested in yours.

Is this the revenge of Grant Petersen and the Elves?

Oh, and as always, your photos are encouraged: Here are mine, which you've seen before.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0484r_zps17a5a362.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0484r_zps17a5a362.jpg.html)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0432r_zpsed6b734a.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0432r_zpsed6b734a.jpg.html)

IMO it's Jan Heine way more than it is Grant. Rivendell moved to the "regular-reach brakes and wider-tire capability" camp early in the 2000s, iirc, but Jan's work in tire testing and his involvement in the development of wider high-performance tires (as well as in promoting 650b, I suppose) have really gotten the snowball effect to speed up. Conditions were 'right' as well, too, I suspect, due to the aging of the core demographic that spends too much money on bike stuff - people like us!

[fourflys]

I have vowed to never ride anything smaller than 25mm and probably not smaller than 28's to be honest...

My Salsa currently with 28mm Clements
http://threeflys.smugmug.com/Cycling/Riding-in-Kodiak/i-Wnmjv58/0/L/IMG_2368-L.jpg

BMC MonsterCross with 43mm Rock and Roads
http://threeflys.smugmug.com/Cycling/Riding-in-Kodiak/i-SsNBFjf/0/L/P1000380-L.jpg

and the ultimate fat! (ok this one doesn't get ridden on the road much ;))
http://threeflys.smugmug.com/Cycling/Riding-in-Kodiak/i-bBkRk5z/0/L/P1000451-L.jpg

[witcombusa]

as car usage diminishes in the current generation more and more people are cycling to commute




Where do you live?

I see only ever INCREASING numbers of cars, not less.

[retrogrouchy]

If I may quote B.B. King, "let's go way back in the alley:"

Just installed Grand Bois EL 32s on this '70s Cinelli yesterday. They fit, without toe-clip interference (just barely) with 175s and Large clips. Check out them fatties!

[witcombusa]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0484r_zps17a5a362.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0484r_zps17a5a362.jpg.html)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0432r_zpsed6b734a.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0432r_zpsed6b734a.jpg.html)



Can you tell me why you don't go up one or two sizes on your framesets?

[4Rings6Stars]

It is certainly a trend, maybe even a fad. But I don't mind... I love steel and fat tires and the more people that feel the same way, the more common the bikes will be and the prices will come down.

[retrogrouchy]

Not just steel.

I have sold a few BMC Granfondo's (Carbon and Alum) and a number of Trek Domane (Carbon and Alum) bikes this season.

"Endurance Road" is a thing now.

The big boys will never miss a chance to sell in (or even create) more niches!

Not implying this is equivalent, but in mountain bikes they've gone from 26" wheels to 700c (29ers) to 650b (27.5ers - goofy name, but whatever).

Up next - 36er mountain bikes (seen those 36-inch Coker bikes that always show up at swap meets)?

[avalonracing]

I think it is the general public's fascination/fear of zombies that is inspiring the move to fatter tires. NO ONE wants to flat when the zombies are headed their way.

[Ardan MacNessa]

It is certainly a trend, maybe even a fad. But I don't mind... I love steel and fat tires and the more people that feel the same way, the more common the bikes will be and the prices will come down.
There has always been this fascination with steel and art which other materials never conquered as much confidence in the same fashion. There's also that trust in the material [steel] and our local builders.

...but Jan's work in tire testing and his involvement in the development of wider high-performance tires (as well as in promoting 650b, I suppose) have really gotten the snowball effect to speed up. Conditions were 'right' as well, too, I suspect, due to the aging of the core demographic that spends too much money on bike stuff - people like us!
I have to agree with you here.

[Ardan MacNessa]

what size tires are on those bikes?

i'm switching out my road to 25mm pro4s on 23mm rims, which will probably balloon to about 28mm.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/8711733912_9409f9117d_b.jpg
My biggest fears of running carbon front forks. Chip seal and a set of 25 mm did this to me.:mad:

[MattTuck]

I think it is the general public's fascination/fear of zombies that is inspiring the move to fatter tires. NO ONE wants to flat when the zombies are headed their way.

I also blame the trend of 'epic' rides. In terms of epicness, gravel > asphalt.

[RFC]

Can you tell me why you don't go up one or two sizes on your framesets?

The Seat Post Police! If you must know, I have greatly enhanced legs and arms and a short torso. TT's get too long fast. Does that answer your question, Officer?;)

[Columbus SLX]

If I may quote B.B. King, "let's go way back in the alley:"

Just installed Grand Bois EL 32s on this '70s Cinelli yesterday. They fit, without toe-clip interference (just barely) with 175s and Large clips. Check out them fatties!

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697860699&stc=1&d=1368290432

Lord, that's a beauty. My more modern Cinelli SC can't clear anything bigger than 23!

[Ardan MacNessa]

Lord, that's a beauty. My more modern Cinelli SC can't clear anything bigger than 23!
I've found that not all 700x25mm tires are accurate. Both rims same width but the Continental Gran Prix 4000s are larger then the Bontrager Race Lites by a bit.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/Medcorp/RBR/82987845-d86e-454f-afb0-e876edc77a4f_zps840f83d7.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/Medcorp/RBR/4ef93a21-b350-476d-8d88-e7c9894b81eb_zps7e79139b.jpg

[Steve in SLO]

One thing driving the move towards larger tires for me is the increase in
chip sealed roads in my area. The more chip sealed roads I ride, the better I like my 25s.

[retrogrouchy]

I also blame the trend of 'epic' rides. In terms of epicness, gravel > asphalt.

That's an epic post! I'm going out for an epic ride to the grocery store now (which is two miles from here). :cool:

[Gummee]

I was visiting my buddy at the shop last week. Saw a C-dale 'Black Lightning' in the stand. 700x25c tires on it. ...except they looked a LOT like 19s.

IOW just because it says X25c on the sidewall, don't mean its really x25c IRL

M

[retrogrouchy]

The Seat Post Police! If you must know, I have greatly enhanced legs and arms and a short torso. TT's get too long fast. Does that answer your question, Officer?;)

Not really, 'cuz those stems are long. Those frames look more like three sizes too small to me, fwiw.... :eek:

[sparky33]

I think it is the general public's fascination/fear of zombies that is inspiring the move to fatter tires. NO ONE wants to flat when the zombies are headed their way.

Then clearly Schwalbe is behind the zombie apocalypse.

[retrogrouchy]

I've found that not all 700x25mm tires are accurate. Both rims same width but the Continental Gran Prix 4000s are larger then the Bontrager Race Lites by a bit.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/Medcorp/RBR/82987845-d86e-454f-afb0-e876edc77a4f_zps840f83d7.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/Medcorp/RBR/4ef93a21-b350-476d-8d88-e7c9894b81eb_zps7e79139b.jpg

Quite a bit, I would say! This is perhaps the most frustrating thing about tires. Even without rim-width effects (which can be very significant) there is way too much variation between tire manufacturers (and even among different tires of the same manufacturer). I have a set of older Pasela 700 x 35 tires on one on my bikes, and they measure at an actual width of 30.8 on fairly wide (22 mm) rims. Not even close....

[Ken Robb]

I'm guessing here but I think tires rated as similar widths may not measure the same width but may have similar volume because some tires inflate to nice round shapes while others (some Paselas) are taller than they are wide.

[retrogrouchy]

Doubtful....

[Ssalmon]

I like it and I hope it stays around, there is nothing wrong with a road bike that could run a 32c.

[bluesea]

Wide tire offerings can bring in more adherents. Conti should definitely bring out a 4000s in 28c. Wide tires with wide rims and standard reach brakes, is the direction I'm heading :beer:.

[Ithadan]

Crappy generic aluminum frame with partsbin build rolling on 37s. It might also be the smallest looking 61cm framed bike in existence. Despite all the high-zoot bikes I have, this is the one I reach to the most often. Go figure.

http://i.imgur.com/LNZA4bFl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/LNZA4bF.jpg)


I keep up with group rides with friends just fine on this. I'm usually dragging at least a pannier and a floor pump while I'm at it.

[yetitotheheady]

I think we are seeing a push toward wide tired road bikes because it allows you to be adventurous.

that's the short answer.

I understand the concept is not new, its just coming around again.

[oldpotatoe]

as car usage diminishes in the current generation
more and more people are cycling to commute

It makes sense to have steel frames for durability and comfort (and price), and larger tires (for durability and comfort), and fender clearance --

so it does not surprise me at all that bike companies would be trending that way.

I can say that as I age I am "trending" this way in my tastes.

You may be trending this way, but auto usage is not decreasing. Nor is it in places like India and China(motorized scooter sales are the thing that is sky-rocketing) with their 1,000,000,000 populations.

Ya want car usage to diminish? Make fuel scarce..but that will create a whole new set of problems..like riots.

[gomango]

You may be trending this way, but auto usage is not decreasing. Nor is it in places like India and China(motorized scooter sales are the thing that is sky-rocketing) with their 1,000,000,000 populations.

Ya want car usage to diminish? Make fuel scarce..but that will create a whole new set of problems..like riots.

Read $20 A Gallon by Christpher Steiner.

Sobering.

[druptight]

I just put 25's on the bike for the first time this weekend pumped to 100 (compared to the 23's pumped to 110), and on my ride into work this AM it felt noticeably smoother.

[fourflys]

I just put 25's on the bike for the first time this weekend pumped to 100 (compared to the 23's pumped to 110), and on my ride into work this AM it felt noticeably smoother.

no try the 25's down closer to 90# and it will be sublime.... (unless you're on the bigger side...)

[fiataccompli]

I commuted this morning on 27x1-1/4" tires on my '80s Cannondale touring bike. I have several bikes set up with 28 & 32mm tires (the actual sizes of all tires vary by model, from my observation, but it's fair to say 28 is universally gonna be larger than 25) and except for wearing the hell out of all the 23mm tires I already have (and a few models that I guess run on the larger side of 23) I use 25 on all my bikes. I've read some of the thoughts on the larger volume/lower pressure allowing better dampening/fewer forces opposing the direction you're trying to keep the wheels turning & all that. It makes sense to me that there's a bit of a sweet spot in tire size and for me it's probably in the 25-28 range.

All that said, I figure a lot of what we see being sold & read about has more to do with the creativity required to continue marketing a product that has more or less been around in its same form for over a hundred years. Not a big deal. I like them all....well, I take that back...I've bought vintage bikes with pristine 20mm tires on them and that is a size I just don't understand.

[dawgie]

I'm definitely been changing my preferences from racing style frames with 23 mm tires, to sport touring or cyclocross frames that can handle larger tires and fenders. My preferences are mainly due to the fact that commuting now accounts for about two-thirds of my mileage and three-fourths of my rides. I've also started riding more on trails -- not mountain bike stuff but more like dirt and gravel roads. I've tried squeezing larger tires in racing frames, and it is less than ideal. Larger tires are definitely more comfortable and wear longer, but you do pay a penalty on the uphills -- something that many fat tire fans gloss over.

[Doug Fattic]

Bicycle companies are not leading the trend to making steel frames that accommodate wider tires and probably have other useful features like fenders and racks. They are slowly responding to a market demand that has been around awhile and is constantly growing. Probably too slowly. Many people getting into bicycling today are not racer wannabes looking for training rides to get faster but rather use a bicycle as basic transportation. I teach 7 or 8 framebuilding classes each year with 3 students in each class (with the help of my assistant Herbie Helm). Almost every single one of them make a frame that will have at least a 28/32mm tire width minimum. Probably no more than 1 a year will choose short reach (39 to 49mm) brakes. In my March class I had a guy from Italy that made a straight racing frame but he is following his culture so he is an obvious exception. I get a lot of other foreign students and they mostly want to make some kind of transportation frame too.

I encourage my students to bring their present bicycles to check their position and see what changes are necessary. It is interesting to see what they bring. The majority are some kind of mid-level (or less) classic steel bicycle reclaimed and modified from Craigslist or the classifieds. If it is a good bike it is going to be something like a Rivendell. Nobody brings anything like a Serotta. Almost never does the conversation go towards what is going on with racing in Europe or anywhere else. Bicycle Quarterly is going to be their magazine of choice. This trend for the kind of bicycle made in my class has been going on for at least 7 years. Actually it is a surprise to me companies don't have more bicycles with wider tires and fender and rack options in their lineups.

[Frankwurst]

I have 3 that fit 42's,1 that fits 32's, 1 that fits 34's, and one that fits 2.5" all with fenders. The one that has 28's w/o fenders probably could handle 32's. I'm old,less flexible and fat (by most riders standards) and I like comfortable and dirt/gravel roads. I wasn't driven by the industry. I was driven by the fact that I live around alot of dirt/gravel roads and like to ride for the ride. Comfort period.:beer:

[pcxmbfj]

This is my latest, a purpose bike.

An attempt to offset my wifes carbon footprint from frequent drives of the one block to her friends house and mine, driving a four wheel drive that never goes offroad.

The mud is from the trail I rode yesterday.

[Ginger]

Not mine, but proper. Wide tires and fenders to keep the mud away!

I did have a Serotta Csi that I had fenders on. It was a lovely ride on all terrain! And my Kirk does a fabulous job no matter where I rode it...and yes, I did ride it on trails...just have to find the photos...

[19wisconsin64]

production bikes with wider tires......goes back to bikes built nearly a century ago, and i love this for so many reasons!
-it pays homage to our cycling heritage
-these bikes are durable
-these bikes are comfortable
-these bikes are super fun to ride!

another thing i've noticed is that the market demand for these mass production wide-tired steel bikes has helped the demand for the smaller custom shop frame makers.

all good!

on a personal note, i'm from wisconsin, and i fondly remember my grandfather and grandmother riding their wide-tired, fendered, schwinn bikes around milwaukee's north side. their bikes had baskets, chain-guards, were a 60's sort of metallic blue color. they rode them around in their neighborhood to go the grocery store,to go for ice cream, to visit neighbors...... you get the picture. these bike remind me of the "happy days" of the past. sorry, a little wisconsin humor there!

[Lanterne Rouge]

I've just been through a bunch of links relating to different bike types and I came across this:

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/clubman-country.html

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2011-pashley-clubman-country-city-bicycle01.jpg

It's bloody magnificant. How was I not aware of this previously? I mean yeah yeah it weighs a ton or near enough, but look at it - marvel at it's complete lack of excess. And for less then $1,200

[sparky33]

Many people getting into bicycling today are not racer wannabes looking for training rides to get faster but rather use a bicycle as basic transportation.

Agreed that more entrants to transportation cycling are creating fat tire demand....all good

Though I dislike that fat tires are often relegated to cyclocross, touring and comfort bikes by the Industry. I ride mostly for sport these days, and I am sold on fat tires for fast riding....racer wannabe activities. 28-33s are plump by roadie standards, but I'm never going back to 23s, 25s, etc. And there are now a few fat road tire offerings that complete nicely in weight and rolling resistance even with some of the best 23s and 25s.

I would like the Industry (Trekalized et al, not niche shops) to design a racing frame that fits fat tires, and 27mm is not fat.

[sparky33]

Really, why is the industry so mindlessly focused on creating the next eleventeen speed cassette? Show me a Campy SR long reach brake caliper instead.
Cruise any bike forum, and a million bike geeks will show you their beautiful Strada Bianca or Calfee with top shelf gruppo except for no-name homely long reach brakes. These bikes are ridden hard and fast...seems like a no brainer for industry money making to adopt that trend.
Industry, are you listening to us geeks?

[alessandro]

I went to the LBS on Sunday, and saw the All-City Mr. Pink: Room for up to rubber up to 32mm, flat-crown steel fork, Columbus Zona tubing, about $800 for the frameset, $1900 complete with a mix of 105 and other components and an FSA crankset. Looked like a nice bike in exactly this category. I may have to go back and test ride one in my size.

[palincss]

I've just been through a bunch of links relating to different bike types and I came across this:

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/clubman-country.html

It's bloody magnificant. How was I not aware of this previously? I mean yeah yeah it weighs a ton or near enough, but look at it - marvel at it's complete lack of excess. And for less then $1,200

1495 GBP is a long, long way from twelve hundred dollars. Have you looked at the dollar to GBP exchange rate lately?

[Ardan MacNessa]

Really, why is the industry so mindlessly focused on creating the next eleventeen speed cassette?
Because it changes an entire grouppo, including its chain. That one gear drives a price-point from a component manufacturer between $400-$4,000. That one added gear gets everyone on-board ...and up to date ...while emptying wallets and piggy banks. What would be more interesting for a manufacturer or ...even a retailer? A larger sized improved tire or an industry that just added one extra gear?


Show me a Campy SR long reach brake caliper instead.

Cruise any bike forum, and a million bike geeks will show you their beautiful Strada Bianca or Calfee with top shelf gruppo except for no-name homely long reach brakes. These bikes are ridden hard and fast...seems like a no brainer for industry money making to adopt that trend.

Industry, are you listening to us geeks?

Good question and great post. ^^^^

[Lanterne Rouge]

1495 GBP is a long, long way from twelve hundred dollars. Have you looked at the dollar to GBP exchange rate lately?

I just got a google shopping search and that's the price that came up :eek:

[weiwentg]

When Trek, Specialized and Giant start making bikes for wide tires, racks and fenders, I'll start to cheer. (they can be any material, don't have to be steel).

I am honestly not sure that this will ever become a major trend. In fact, the production trend the OP speaks of is restricted (in my observation) to the aficionados. Remember, less than 1% of the US population cycles to work, and of that population, the people who frequent this forum are the 1%. We have very different tastes - some of us race, some radonneur, some of us exceed 10,000 miles per year, etc. There might be a trend among people like us. But we are an insignificant percent of the whole market for bicycles.

What I really want to see is for the share of Americans who bicycle to work, to school or to the grocery store to rise to 60 percent. Most of those folks will, indeed, want an inexpensive version of the bike the OP describes. I want to see this happen because Americans are burning way too much gasoline, and because Americans are weak and could use a bit of htfu, even if it's just ride to the grocery store in the summer. That, and I want to see the cities get massive improvements in public transit and fleets of self-driving cars elsewhere.

A couple of posters alluded to the fact that the younger generations (I count myself there) are driving less than their parents. Well, we are. But we still aren't riding en masse. And unfortunately, we won't be able to absent massive changes that will take more than a generation to take place. Americans still predominantly live in suburbs where you have to drive everywhere. Our infrastructure is all built to accommodate the suburban drivers - this means we carve massive swathes out of the cities to accommodate freeways, when instead we could have built housing, or storefronts, or offices, or a mixed use project. Heck, I cycle from Baltimore to UMBC about twice a week in the summer, and the roads are not that friendly. I am constantly watching out for idiot drivers. And even if you got all the idiots off the roads or into self-driving cars, it would still be 10-12 miles each way, and most Americans are too weak to make that trip.

Anyway, that's what I think of this 'trend'. There's still much more work to be done.

[RFC]

When Trek, Specialized and Giant start making bikes for wide tires, racks and fenders, I'll start to cheer. (they can be any material, don't have to be steel).

I am honestly not sure that this will ever become a major trend. In fact, the production trend the OP speaks of is restricted (in my observation) to the aficionados. Remember, less than 1% of the US population cycles to work, and of that population, the people who frequent this forum are the 1%. We have very different tastes - some of us race, some radonneur, some of us exceed 10,000 miles per year, etc. There might be a trend among people like us. But we are an insignificant percent of the whole market for bicycles.

What I really want to see is for the share of Americans who bicycle to work, to school or to the grocery store to rise to 60 percent. Most of those folks will, indeed, want an inexpensive version of the bike the OP describes. I want to see this happen because Americans are burning way too much gasoline, and because Americans are weak and could use a bit of htfu, even if it's just ride to the grocery store in the summer. That, and I want to see the cities get massive improvements in public transit and fleets of self-driving cars elsewhere.

A couple of posters alluded to the fact that the younger generations (I count myself there) are driving less than their parents. Well, we are. But we still aren't riding en masse. And unfortunately, we won't be able to absent massive changes that will take more than a generation to take place. Americans still predominantly live in suburbs where you have to drive everywhere. Our infrastructure is all built to accommodate the suburban drivers - this means we carve massive swathes out of the cities to accommodate freeways, when instead we could have built housing, or storefronts, or offices, or a mixed use project. Heck, I cycle from Baltimore to UMBC about twice a week in the summer, and the roads are not that friendly. I am constantly watching out for idiot drivers. And even if you got all the idiots off the roads or into self-driving cars, it would still be 10-12 miles each way, and most Americans are too weak to make that trip.

Anyway, that's what I think of this 'trend'. There's still much more work to be done.

Very thoughtful and articulate. But, yes, the universe I'm referring to is the 1% of 1%.

[jr59]

When Trek, Specialized and Giant start making bikes for wide tires, racks and fenders, I'll start to cheer. (they can be any material, don't have to be steel).

I am honestly not sure that this will ever become a major trend. In fact, the production trend the OP speaks of is restricted (in my observation) to the aficionados. Remember, less than 1% of the US population cycles to work, and of that population, the people who frequent this forum are the 1%. We have very different tastes - some of us race, some radonneur, some of us exceed 10,000 miles per year, etc. There might be a trend among people like us. But we are an insignificant percent of the whole market for bicycles.

What I really want to see is for the share of Americans who bicycle to work, to school or to the grocery store to rise to 60 percent. Most of those folks will, indeed, want an inexpensive version of the bike the OP describes. I want to see this happen because Americans are burning way too much gasoline, and because Americans are weak and could use a bit of htfu, even if it's just ride to the grocery store in the summer. That, and I want to see the cities get massive improvements in public transit and fleets of self-driving cars elsewhere.

A couple of posters alluded to the fact that the younger generations (I count myself there) are driving less than their parents. Well, we are. But we still aren't riding en masse. And unfortunately, we won't be able to absent massive changes that will take more than a generation to take place. Americans still predominantly live in suburbs where you have to drive everywhere. Our infrastructure is all built to accommodate the suburban drivers - this means we carve massive swathes out of the cities to accommodate freeways, when instead we could have built housing, or storefronts, or offices, or a mixed use project. Heck, I cycle from Baltimore to UMBC about twice a week in the summer, and the roads are not that friendly. I am constantly watching out for idiot drivers. And even if you got all the idiots off the roads or into self-driving cars, it would still be 10-12 miles each way, and most Americans are too weak to make that trip.

Anyway, that's what I think of this 'trend'. There's still much more work to be done.


Isn't that what hybrids are? Wide tires, rack, fenders. Seems to me that almost every big bike co makes and sells a LOT of these!

[texbike]

I love this trend and am glad that more and more choices are appearing that can run modern parts. I just wish we had more off-road gravel paths close by to take advantage of. For now, carefully ridden 23/25Cs seem to do okay for the occasional off road section that is encountered around my neighborhood.

Although, the BMC roadie is whispering to me anyway...

Texbike

[oldpotatoe]

Really, why is the industry so mindlessly focused on creating the next eleventeen speed cassette? Show me a Campy SR long reach brake caliper instead.
Cruise any bike forum, and a million bike geeks will show you their beautiful Strada Bianca or Calfee with top shelf gruppo except for no-name homely long reach brakes. These bikes are ridden hard and fast...seems like a no brainer for industry money making to adopt that trend.
Industry, are you listening to us geeks?

Not really listening in any meaningful way because the biggest part of the 'road' market is still bicycles with short reach brakes, no room for big tires or fenders cuz most people that ride bikes are still enthusiasts who ride for fun and exercise, mostly on the weekends. Like it or don't the percentage that 'commute' and need big tires, racks, fenders, etc is still very small, even here in the republic.

BUT I commute almost everyday it isn't snowing. I ride for an hour or so, then go to work and then ride home. I commute on a Merckx MXLeader or Moots Vamoots. Many could 'commute' on just about anything. Áes, it would be nice if there were more 'purpose built' bicycles but like the car market, they follow the money. It would be great if you had a big van for those 2-3 times a year you 'need' to move a bunch of stuff but you 'make due' with the 4 door sedan.

[MerckxMad]

I've just been through a bunch of links relating to different bike types and I came across this:

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/clubman-country.html

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2011-pashley-clubman-country-city-bicycle01.jpg

It's bloody magnificant. How was I not aware of this previously? I mean yeah yeah it weighs a ton or near enough, but look at it - marvel at it's complete lack of excess. And for less then $1,200

Now, there's someone with taste and obvious class. I love my Clubman. It's not as heavy as you would think @20 lbs as built. It's also not $1200, but $2500 out the door. I had an issue with the rear hub (needed to replace the spring so that the pawls would catch), but my dealer exchanged the wheel for me. Otheriwise it's a time machine ride to the 1960's UK. Great fun.

[sparky33]

Really, why is the industry so mindlessly focused on creating the next eleventeen speed cassette? Show me a Campy SR long reach brake caliper instead.
Cruise any bike forum, and a million bike geeks will show you their beautiful Strada Bianca or Calfee with top shelf gruppo except for no-name homely long reach brakes. These bikes are ridden hard and fast...seems like a no brainer for industry money making to adopt that trend.
Industry, are you listening to us geeks?

Well, at least the Strada Bianca will have some worthy stoppers now:
http://hampsten.blogspot.com/2013/05/cute-as-sack-of-kittens-new-brakes.html

[Ken C]

Well, at least the Strada Bianca will have some worthy stoppers now:
http://hampsten.blogspot.com/2013/05/cute-as-sack-of-kittens-new-brakes.html

Those look really nice, but it is interesting that they do not appear to incorporate the wide mouth QR found on the Tektro brakes. I really like this feature on the R539s, but wish they performed as nice as my old R600s.

I wonder if the TRP version will perfrorm as well as the old shimano R600 and R650s?

[GRAVELBIKE]

Well, at least the Strada Bianca will have some worthy stoppers now:
http://hampsten.blogspot.com/2013/05/cute-as-sack-of-kittens-new-brakes.html

Those look promising. I wonder if they're optimized for the longer-pull Shimano levers. I'd also be curious to see how they compare stiffness-wise to the Velo-Orange Grand Cru calipers.

[sparky33]

Those look promising. I wonder if they're optimized for the longer-pull Shimano levers. I'd also be curious to see how they compare stiffness-wise to the Velo-Orange Grand Cru calipers.

The VO GC calipers are tops right now IMO, so that will be an interesting comparison.

[retrogrouchy]

Now, there's someone with taste and obvious class. I love my Clubman. It's not as heavy as you would think @20 lbs as built. It's also not $1200, but $2500 out the door. I had an issue with the rear hub (needed to replace the spring so that the pawls would catch), but my dealer exchanged the wheel for me. Otheriwise it's a time machine ride to the 1960's UK. Great fun.

That Pashley is more like $2400 if sells for 1495 GBP....

[Nags&Ducs]

I've just been through a bunch of links relating to different bike types and I came across this:

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/clubman-country.html

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2011-pashley-clubman-country-city-bicycle01.jpg

It's bloody magnificant. How was I not aware of this previously? I mean yeah yeah it weighs a ton or near enough, but look at it - marvel at it's complete lack of excess. And for less then $1,200

I'm digging the Pashley Clubman. It's the shiznitz fo sho! But these go for $2600 nowadays. Maybe it was the frame/fork that was $1200??

The more I see a Pashley, the more I want a Pashley. This one is the one I really want!!!

[tch]

...I had a bike that looked just like that. Raleigh Super Course.

"What goes around comes around"?
or "Nostalgia is blind"?

I'll take my 17lb ti Serotta with handlebar brifters and "clipless" pedals any day.

[Nags&Ducs]

...I had a bike that looked just like that. Raleigh Super Course.

"What goes around comes around"?
or "Nostalgia is blind"?

I'll take my 17lb ti Serotta with handlebar brifters and "clipless" pedals any day.

So would I. I'll take my true roadies over a randonneur or touring bike any day. But since I have most categories of bikes to include roadies, CX (which I uses as a commuter and tourer), townies, MTBs, a classic looking touring bike like this Pashley would be a great addition to my stable. This Pashley with a mustache bar and bar-end shifters would be bazz add!!!

[christian]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HSs3Y1CoJlk/TpB56Q7BWKI/AAAAAAAAB_A/qGj10QMDi64/s1600/web.jpg

Mmmmmmmmm. Fat tires, fat pipes, phat welds.

[Nags&Ducs]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HSs3Y1CoJlk/TpB56Q7BWKI/AAAAAAAAB_A/qGj10QMDi64/s1600/web.jpg

Mmmmmmmmm. Fat tires, fat pipes, phat welds.

Tig ol bitties!!!! Woo pig soieeeee!!!!! Love that cinghiale!!!

[Fixed]

Some nice looking bikes for the mature rider IMHO
I still like race bikes though and having the right bike for the right job is pretty cool finding challenging courses that mix road surfaces is really cool and fun
Cheers

[JAGI410]

I went to the LBS on Sunday, and saw the All-City Mr. Pink: Room for up to rubber up to 32mm, flat-crown steel fork, Columbus Zona tubing, about $800 for the frameset, $1900 complete with a mix of 105 and other components and an FSA crankset. Looked like a nice bike in exactly this category. I may have to go back and test ride one in my size.

I test fit some Jack Browns on my Mr. Pink and there was plenty of room left. I plan on trying some file tread 35's. I'm currently running 28s and can't wait for them to die so I can get fatter tires. This bike is great!

[EDS]

When Trek, Specialized and Giant start making bikes for wide tires, racks and fenders, I'll start to cheer. (they can be any material, don't have to be steel).

I am honestly not sure that this will ever become a major trend. In fact, the production trend the OP speaks of is restricted (in my observation) to the aficionados. Remember, less than 1% of the US population cycles to work, and of that population, the people who frequent this forum are the 1%. We have very different tastes - some of us race, some radonneur, some of us exceed 10,000 miles per year, etc. There might be a trend among people like us. But we are an insignificant percent of the whole market for bicycles.

What I really want to see is for the share of Americans who bicycle to work, to school or to the grocery store to rise to 60 percent. Most of those folks will, indeed, want an inexpensive version of the bike the OP describes. I want to see this happen because Americans are burning way too much gasoline, and because Americans are weak and could use a bit of htfu, even if it's just ride to the grocery store in the summer. That, and I want to see the cities get massive improvements in public transit and fleets of self-driving cars elsewhere.

A couple of posters alluded to the fact that the younger generations (I count myself there) are driving less than their parents. Well, we are. But we still aren't riding en masse. And unfortunately, we won't be able to absent massive changes that will take more than a generation to take place. Americans still predominantly live in suburbs where you have to drive everywhere. Our infrastructure is all built to accommodate the suburban drivers - this means we carve massive swathes out of the cities to accommodate freeways, when instead we could have built housing, or storefronts, or offices, or a mixed use project. Heck, I cycle from Baltimore to UMBC about twice a week in the summer, and the roads are not that friendly. I am constantly watching out for idiot drivers. And even if you got all the idiots off the roads or into self-driving cars, it would still be 10-12 miles each way, and most Americans are too weak to make that trip.

Anyway, that's what I think of this 'trend'. There's still much more work to be done.

Trek, Giant and Specialized do have wide tire (e..g., 700x32+) friendly models with rack mounts, etc.

[c-record]

I test fit some Jack Browns on my Mr. Pink and there was plenty of room left. I plan on trying some file tread 35's. I'm currently running 28s and can't wait for them to die so I can get fatter tires. This bike is great!

How do you like your Mr. Pink?

[GRAVELBIKE]

Just took delivery of a steel Volagi Viaje. It does have a carbon fork, but it's got clearance for wider tires and fenders.

[InspectorGadget]

Not steel, wish it was. And it's a cross bike, but it's wearing cushy 700x32 Vittoria Hyper Pro shoes.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5470/9940721185_0c8610a3d3_b.jpg

I'm in the minority, but I like the increased availability of disk brakes on road/gravel/multipurpose bikes.

[Peter B]

Just took delivery of a steel Volagi Viaje. It does have a carbon fork, but it's got clearance for wider tires and fenders.

My Viaje has served me well. Clearance for 42s with fenders, running 32s in summer mode w/o issues. BB7 SL w/Hope rotors works very well. Know the boyz behind 'em and am happy to support their thing.

WI hubs laced 28 3x via CX-rays to H plus Sons by White Mountain Wheels. Terrific.

Does. All. Well.

Happy weekend folks!

[Fixed]

Nice looking bikes
Cheers

[JAGI410]

How do you like your Mr. Pink?

Aside from the PF30 BB madness, it is the perfect road bike for me. I absolutely love it. It's great looking, smooth as hell, responsive, and cheap enough that I don't cry if I scratch it. It is ridiculously comfortable. I built mine up with Veloce/Easton/FSA/Velo Orange/Civia bits and it weighs in at 22lbs. Could easily get it down lighter, but that's not my priority. This is my century/gravel/all day/hooligan bike, and it's perfect.

Crappy sunrise phone pic, click to biggerize:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a434/JAGI410/th_AA61ABB7-785C-478B-9C21-C70B445EAE08-4113-0000058C004B2323_zpsae79c92a.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/JAGI410/media/AA61ABB7-785C-478B-9C21-C70B445EAE08-4113-0000058C004B2323_zpsae79c92a.jpg.html)

[dd74]

Don't Italian-type race bike frames from the '70s and '80s somewhat speak to today's road/gravel bikes you guys are speaking of? As far as I can see, they were very much all-purpose bikes able to take on many types of terrain.

[happycampyer]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HSs3Y1CoJlk/TpB56Q7BWKI/AAAAAAAAB_A/qGj10QMDi64/s1600/web.jpg

Mmmmmmmmm. Fat tires, fat pipes, phat welds.Hey, that's not a steel bike...

[jr59]

Hey, that's not a steel bike...

Super steel! :banana:

[christian]

Hey, that's not a steel bike...

Oh, I thought this thead was "wide-tired bikes you'd like to steal."