Colnago C59 - missing serial number??

[adhumston]

Ok, so I may have jumped the gun, I'm just not sure. I was watching (and contemplating) a C59 on eBay for awhile. There were (still are, I'll link ad later) a multitude of high quality pictures in the listing, which I examined in detail. Unfortunately, somehow I completely overlooked the fact that the serial number was not on the frame! Don't ask me how, but I did.

So fast forward a bit, auction is about to end, and I make a low offer (but still not cheap) and it's accepted about 30 minutes later, much to my surprise. I wait somewhat impatiently for the frame for about a week. It arrives (in a colnago box) with a colnago owners manual and is as beautiful as the pictures... until I check the serial number, which, as you know by now, is not there. It does have, what appears to be, the correct Colnago (by Acros) headset, and everything else looks legit. The only other question mark I have is on the way the driveside BB insert is bonded to the shell, as it looks a little sloppy.

Anyway, the listing with the pictures is below. I would greatly value opinions, but please go easy on my lack of intelligence for not checking for the serial number initially!

The listing is here

[Gat64]

This picture I found clearly shows where the serial number should be. Does it look like anything was removed there?

[adhumston]

Originally Posted by Gat64

This picture I found clearly shows where the serial number should be. Does it look like anything was removed there?

That's the worst part... I knew where it should be, I just didn't look! It does look like it could've been removed, but I'm not sure how it is attached on the c59s. Is it just a sticker?

I did forget to mention that there is a part of the manual (that appears to be a bar code, or perhaps where the serial # was written) that is blacked out with permanent marker.

[Gat64]

Looks like it could have been a repaint near the hanger. It seems this style usually has a white section painted at the end of the chain stays (see picture) and yours does not seem to have this.

[ultraman6970]

Did you ask the seller?

[adhumston]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Did you ask the seller?

I did, and waiting to hear back now. Hopefully it ends up being easily explained!

[enr1co]

C59 frames have its serial # stamped on the inside of the left rear drop out.

Have seen a few and none have serial # stickers anywhere else.

[Black Dog]

Is your fear that it is fake or stolen? Check the dropout as mentioned above.

[adhumston]

Originally Posted by enr1co

C59 frames have its serial # stamped on the inside of the left rear drop out.

Have seen a few and none have serial # stickers anywhere else.

Do you recall how the serial # is attached? The dropout where it's located is carbon, so I don't think it can be stamped directly on.

[adhumston]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Is your fear that it is fake or stolen? Check the dropout as mentioned above.

Either and both!

Edit: I guess I'm actually more concerned it's a fake, as I'm not sure it's within in the realm of possibility to return it to it's rightful owner at this point, if in fact it would turn out to be stolen (which would be hard to prove without the serial #), though I would definitely try.

The serial # is not there, or if it is, it's painted over. If you click the link in the pics, there's a picture or two that show that dropout.

[Black Dog]

I looked and there is no trace on the dropout. If it is a sticker and the serial number is blacked out with a marker then stolen is a possibility. This being a fake is very unlikely because of the use of carbon lugs and the difficulty in making them as well as the shaped tubes.

You can get barcode scanning apps for your phone to get the serial number from the manual.

[wallymann]

dude...i think it's a fake.

absence of a serial# is a *big* red flag. that would fly in the early 1980s and before, but not in the 2010s! in my experience, colnago serial#s are *not* stickers, they are machined directly into the dropout.

just eyeballing some pics i see:

the cable inserts at the top of the downtube are shaped wrong.
the front-mech bracket is shaped wrong.

maybe colnago made a bunch of running changes, but...really?

Originally Posted by Black Dog

This being a fake is very unlikely because of the use of carbon lugs and the difficulty in making them as well as the shaped tubes

disagree completely with this. i can google search a couple chinese websites and can order/buy fake C59s all day long.

[adhumston]

Originally Posted by wallymann

dude...i think it's a fake.

absence of a serial# is a *big* red flag. that would fly in the early '80s and before, but not in the 2010s! in my experience, colnago serial#s are *not* stickers, they are machined directly into the dropout.

just eyeballing some pics i see:

the cable inserts at the top of the downtube are shaped wrong.
the front-mech bracket is shaped wrong.

maybe colnago made a bunch of running changes, but...really?

Not noticing the lack of serial # was a HUGE oversight on my part. I'm still not sure how they would/could machine the serial # into the carbon dropout, but I don't know enough about it, so I'm purely speculating.

I do actually see a couple different styles of downtube cable inserts when typing 'Colnago C59 cable' into google images, so perhaps they did make some changes throughout the run??

I really can't find clear enough pictures of other braze ons, but I don't see any glaring differences... at least not like the obviously fake examples (on those the rivets aren't even painted).


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify my purchase, I just want to have clear examples to be able to take to PayPal and eBay if I (we) can determine it's not authentic.

[enr1co]

Originally Posted by adhumston

Do you recall how the serial # is attached? The dropout where it's located is carbon, so I don't think it can be stamped directly on.

The rear dropouts are of aluminum.

Is the inside of your left drop out completely smooth? The stamp may not be really deep but enough to have some impression for numbers and typically "masked" off with a small rectangular black background.

Typically looks something like this pic from another ebay listing:

[R3awak3n]

But how hard would it be for a fake to have a serial number?
They can easily figure out how colnago "serializes" (lol) bikes. People figure out how to crack software with serial numbers with 3 times more characters.


I think that if this is fake you have a good chance to get your money back. Ebay does not tolerate fakes and i am sure that seller does not want to loose his account. It will be a pain because he is in the netharlands ( why i never want to buy bikes on ebay outside of the us) but its too much money to just not get what you want and he will make it right or ebAy/paypal will.

I really like that color scheme.