Ot: 9/11

[rwsaunders]

I had a nice quiet ride early this morning, followed by church service with my family afterwards. The message of the sermon was that more good than evil took place that day. How true.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by rwsaunders

I had a nice quiet ride early this morning, followed by church service with my family afterwards. The message of the sermon was that more good than evil took place that day. How true.

I'd agree. And for many days afterwards. And yet it clearly would have been better for it never to have happened. And when I see the way we have turned ourselves inside out in response ove the past decade, I can't help but think it did an awful lot of what it was intended to do. And that, like the acts themselves, is beyond tragic.

I didn't really want to spend today rehashing and reflecting as much as I did. But I didn't have a choice - I just unavoidably did, as I've done every 9/11 since. Nonetheless, when I hear the various stories told by those who lost loved ones (I had a couple of friends who were there or very close by but got out, but lost no one), I'm reduced to my own personal rubble. It remains so incredibly heart-wrenching, the choices that people on the upper floors had to make, and those on Flight '93, who at least got a choice in the manner of their own deaths, its very very hard to imagine how any human being could intentionally do that to another, regardless of the perceived justice of their cause.

As with so many atrocities, the only lasting good is that we should never forget. And yet, invariably we do...

-Ray

[djg]

Early cross practice.

Then I took my two younger kids to the school year's first day of religious school at our synagogue. There were very various orientation and meet-and-greet things for the parents. At one point, there was a short memorial service just for parents. It's me as much as anything, but I often find that they come up short when they try to deal with current events and hard issues. But this was different. Moving. Seemed right.

Ten years ago, I drove past the Pentagon maybe 5 minutes after the plane hit. There was all sorts of babble on the radio and then something just rumored, from an outside caller, just as I was coming down the GW parkway. I saw the column of smoke start to rise and I couldn't really process it. People were fleeing the building as I waited on the ramp to get onto 395 to come into the city. A couple of guys hiked up the embankment looking for a ride into DC -- I was going to let them in, but the car right in front of me took them, so when my turn came I just kept driving. I got to work at Georgetown and it was madness. I parked, started in, and ran into an ordinarily sober and tough-minded former federal prosecutor who said "go home." She started babbling that they'd bombed the Capital and the FBI building. "Go home." I stayed. Went into a sort of lounge where there was a large screen TV. It was packed with people staring at the image of the towers. When each of the buildings came down in turn a new smaller cluster of people just fell apart. I didn't know them -- grief and disbelief enough all around, and they weren't alone, but I could only imagine if these were the kids with a mom, dad, or some other loved one thought to be at work at the trade center.

We all lost something, but to those who lost somebody close, my thoughts are with you.

[tiretrax]

My family and I greeted troops returning from Afghanistan. It was the least I could do to show my appreciation for them and the many who have sacrificed for us, keeping us safe to enjoy riding our bikes and other pursuits.

My friend Jim Waters died that day in the South Tower. We had a conversation about getting out of the tower three months earlier while at a friend's wedding. While on a hiaitus from Wall Street, he tried to market an umbrella holster so folks commuting on the subway could put their umbrellas in a dry place while on the subway and not get themselves or others wet from the dripping umbrellas. While discussing working in the Trade Center, which was bombed unsuccessfully 8 years earlier, he joked about inventing an office parachute - I wish he had.

[Bruce K]

I went to a cross race today. Spent some quiet time between 8:26 and about 8:45 then raced to take my mind off of it all for a while.

We lost two freinds on United 93 and watched the dedication of the memorial in Shanksville on TV yesterday. It seemed like every time the camera zoomed in on the wall and again when the VP stopped at the wall it was always on the panel with the name of our freind Linda.

We will never forget her or her boyfreind Joe. We still miss them as much today as we did ten years ago. And we will NEVER forget them, the others who were lost, or what happened that day.

BK

[dhoff]

Originally Posted by tiretrax

he joked about inventing an office parachute - I wish he had.

I have been sad today feeling a lot, waves of sadness coming up seemingly out of the blue today and yesterday, reminding me of that day. I was in the city that day, but uptown. About 15 of my good friends and relatives working in the towers or within a 2 block radius. We tracked most of them down and almost all of our family members within the first 3 hours, kept getting good news, but still some people were missing. 1 hour after the towers came down, my neighbors dad showed up in my building, covered in dust, had run from the falling buildings and had no place to go. He stayed with me until they opened the GW bridge. An hour later I heard that My friend, a mother of 3 had called in sick that day and wasn't in the office that the first plane plowed into, for that reason. At that time they opened the GW bridge but wouldnt let me ride my bike over. I was stopped by a cop and when I said, "what if I ride over anyway" he said, "I will shoot you", and I believed him. So I hitched a ride with my bike in a van full of people who only spoke spanish.

4 hours after the towers came down we heard from a friends wife, she had told the security the second tower, telling her to return to her desk and not to leave the building to F-Off and convinced her entire office to leave with her, thereby saving the lives of 74 people, (every single member) at her investment banking form, 6 hours after the towers came down I got a call, saying someone close had just made it home, a 5 hour walk with no shoes, to Brooklyn. An hour later, I was watching TV, the scenes from the Helicopters that they only showed for a little while. I watched as a friend, not close, but someone I knew, broke out a window; the floor beneath in flames. He looked up to the people in the Helicopter as if asking for help, I felt like he was looking strait into me through the TV. I could see his fear, still can. I can still feel it almost like it was me, the heat from below, intense, the hopelessness, he leaned way out the window, looked down for a moment, and then up one more time, looking strait into the eyes of the camera, he let go, falling from high up in the tower.

I prayed that day for him and for all of us, for those who would yet die as a result of this, the soldiers and the innocents. I expect that there have been more of the latter.

Today, 10 years later I grieve for all of those who have so senselessly lost, not just those who have died but for those who have lost the ones they love. I wonder if anything we have done since has made anyone safer. I have always felt that there is glory in giving everything to a cause, in feeling so driven by one's convictions, one is willing to give up their life. But there is no glory in loosing a father or a daughter, son or a mom. There is only loss. It seems we have all lost so much since that day, people we loved, freedoms we held dear.

Today was a sad day for me. A day I needed to remember from where we came.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

And we will NEVER forget them, the others who were lost, or what happened that day.

Bruce - on the chance that this was in any way a reaction to my comment about how we invariably do forget, please understand I didn't mean we invariably forget about a specific incident or the people lost and otherwise affected (as we all were). I certainly won't and I know nobody who knew people killed ever could. I only meant that we humans collectively invariably forget the larger lessons that lead to atrocities happening again and again through the ages. I will never forget that day or the many people I never even knew who I was touched by at a very basic human level. And I don't think anyone would. But similarly horrible things continue to happen all too often, in some location somewhere in the world as people forget that our humanity toward each other is far more important than any religious or political or material ideal.

-Ray

[Bruce K]

RAy;

No reaction to your comment at all.

Just my own feeling/reaction to the day and what I had seen on TV over the last few days.

All is good.

BK

[johnnymossville]

Took the family to church yesterday and the message was forgiveness. Obviously a very difficult thing to do even 10 years later, but then the alternative is probably even more difficult in the end. It was a very thought provoking sermon.

Can't believe it's been 10 years already.

[AngryScientist]

i rode up the the 9/11 memorial in eagle rock reservation. quiet and somber ride with a new friend from my bike club. it was early morning, but tents were up and ceremonies were to take place.

beautiful red, white and blue flags were created from the names of the men and women who lost their lives that terrible day. it was very emotional and moving to be there with the friends and family of others so obviously affected by the disaster.

i remember the day vividly, as i am sure most of us who are old enough to remember do. i will never forget that day.

[dbrown]

dhoff- powerfull and heartfelt. My prayers to you, your friends and all who had such losses.

Originally Posted by dhoff

I have been sad today feeling a lot, waves of sadness coming up seemingly out of the blue today and yesterday, reminding me of that day. I was in the city that day, but uptown. About 15 of my good friends and relatives working in the towers or within a 2 block radius. We tracked most of them down and almost all of our family members within the first 3 hours, kept getting good news, but still some people were missing. 1 hour after the towers came down, my neighbors dad showed up in my building, covered in dust, had run from the falling buildings and had no place to go. He stayed with me until they opened the GW bridge. An hour later I heard that My friend, a mother of 3 had called in sick that day and wasn't in the office that the first plane plowed into, for that reason. At that time they opened the GW bridge but wouldnt let me ride my bike over. I was stopped by a cop and when I said, "what if I ride over anyway" he said, "I will shoot you", and I believed him. So I hitched a ride with my bike in a van full of people who only spoke spanish.

4 hours after the towers came down we heard from a friends wife, she had told the security the second tower, telling her to return to her desk and not to leave the building to F-Off and convinced her entire office to leave with her, thereby saving the lives of 74 people, (every single member) at her investment banking form, 6 hours after the towers came down I got a call, saying someone close had just made it home, a 5 hour walk with no shoes, to Brooklyn. An hour later, I was watching TV, the scenes from the Helicopters that they only showed for a little while. I watched as a friend, not close, but someone I knew, broke out a window; the floor beneath in flames. He looked up to the people in the Helicopter as if asking for help, I felt like he was looking strait into me through the TV. I could see his fear, still can. I can still feel it almost like it was me, the heat from below, intense, the hopelessness, he leaned way out the window, looked down for a moment, and then up one more time, looking strait into the eyes of the camera, he let go, falling from high up in the tower.

I prayed that day for him and for all of us, for those who would yet die as a result of this, the soldiers and the innocents. I expect that there have been more of the latter.

Today, 10 years later I grieve for all of those who have so senselessly lost, not just those who have died but for those who have lost the ones they love. I wonder if anything we have done since has made anyone safer. I have always felt that there is glory in giving everything to a cause, in feeling so driven by one's convictions, one is willing to give up their life. But there is no glory in loosing a father or a daughter, son or a mom. There is only loss. It seems we have all lost so much since that day, people we loved, freedoms we held dear.

Today was a sad day for me. A day I needed to remember from where we came.

[Aaron O]

Originally Posted by Ray

Bruce - on the chance that this was in any way a reaction to my comment about how we invariably do forget, please understand I didn't mean we invariably forget about a specific incident or the people lost and otherwise affected (as we all were). I certainly won't and I know nobody who knew people killed ever could. I only meant that we humans collectively invariably forget the larger lessons that lead to atrocities happening again and again through the ages. I will never forget that day or the many people I never even knew who I was touched by at a very basic human level. And I don't think anyone would. But similarly horrible things continue to happen all too often, in some location somewhere in the world as people forget that our humanity toward each other is far more important than any religious or political or material ideal.

-Ray

I'm not sure there is a larger lesson here. We're an empire and there are always going to be those looking to challenge or overthrow the status quo. We're a country based on free trade and free trade means some level of open borders and open travel. That means we are always going to be potentially vulnerable unless we want to shut down the borders. If people can smuggle humans and drugs through our borders, do you really think we can stop things like this every time? It only takes "them" getting lucky once to have a disaster, and you're not going to stop everything. Does anyone honestly believe a less interventionist approach to the mid-east would eliminate anger and hatred? If Israel was gone tomorrow, there would be a different issue. We're an empire and there are going to be people who want to promote their own interests, just as we do.

Personally, I'd rather live in a free society and endure the consequences than a closed one. All systems have weaknesses, this is one of our's. I think we owe an unfathomable debt to the passengers who downed the plane...that day could have been so much worse had they struck our government. I'm also extremely thankful that it wasn't me or mine who did have to endure those consequences.

As far as the original post...about there being more good that day than evil, it honestly strikes me as trite, pointless and silly. We suffered a tremendous loss as a nation...and the good did not outweigh the bad. Our markets took a hit, the nation's character changed and we're mired in war that has further limited the economy and thrust us in debt. We have radicalized, polar politics steeped in dogma with little focus on the American principle of compromise and balance of power. Much of that is rooted in 9/11, and people who cynically took advantage of the tragedy to promote their own agendas.

[flydhest]

Just a friendly reminder from your moderators that civil conversation is a requirement. This issue is an important one to everyone. We ask for respectful dialogue on a subject that is sensitive to all.

[Pete Serotta]

Originally Posted by flydhest

Just a friendly reminder from your moderators that civil conversation is a requirement. This issue is an important one to everyone. We ask for respectful dialogue on a subject that is sensitive to all.

THanks. Pete

[Dave B]

Like many I have my own feelings for the families and people lost in the 9-11 attacks and resulting conflict we involve our troops in.

What i am struggling with is how to communicate this to my students. I spoke to them Friday with a factual presentation we were given by the admin...not principals, but top dogs.

It is really difficult to discuss an incredibly emotional and even more so powerful time in our history with numbers.

After the facts I lead them in discussions on judging others by their color, religion, ethnicity, etc.

I suppose it went ok and I did my best to keep my points of view out of things, but how do you talk to children who were 1 or 2 when this happened about the significance of what us adults experienced? I remember when it happened and what I was doing. My principal then would not allow us to tell our students when it happened.

Sometimes being a teacher gets in the way of educating our children.

Thanks for listening.