John Eustice on disk brakes

[mcteague]

I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire but found this POV interesting. I do see disks as the future of road bikes, even though I only own rim brake bikes. I expect them to be improved a lot in the coming years but tend to agree with Eustice, not sure I would get them today if I were getting a new bike.


Tim

https://pezcyclingnews.com/features/...mco-evenepoel/

We recently spotted a post by former US Professional Road Champion, John Eustice on disc brakes, which we reproduce his with his kind permission:

“The big issue with my new Pinarello, was of course the decision on whether to go to disc brakes or not. I endured a veritable chorus of disc brake fervour from my Central Park riding friends, about how, “you’ll be sorry if you don’t get them” and so forth, yet something held me back. I kept thinking about Team Ineos who, with that massive budget allowing them free rein in equipment choice, combined with their deep research abilities, have stuck to rim brakes.

I also spoke with a team director friend who, surprisingly, told me that his disc brake equipped riders begged him all year to allow them to change over to rim brakes for the Tour de France – it didn’t happen. I ended up with a rim brake machine and am so happy I did, especially after hanging with the mechanics down in Colombia (at the Tour Colombia 2.1) and getting the – emphatically off the record – inside views on the current equipment situation. The one theme I kept hearing was that the bicycle industry is using teams for product development rather than putting them on perfected equipment. The SRAM derailleur failures last year are an example of this practice. Many issues still remain with disc brake systems. Besides the fact that they add 500 grams (one pound) to a bicycle and make wheel changes difficult and slow, the brake rotors are constantly warping, sometimes even after a single hard descent. That “ping-ping-ping” of the rotor hitting the sides of the brake, which seems as thin as credit card swipe, drives racers (and everyone else I’m assuming) mad and is source of drag to boot. Brake pads are fast-wearing and changing them is certainly much more difficult than it is for rim systems.”

I’ve never ridden a bike with discs so I’m not the one to give informed opinion on the subject but on our recent mission to, ‘The Opening Weekend’ in Flanders we chatted to one of our hugely experienced WorldTour mechanic amigos, he gave us similar comments to the ones John heard. As far as the riders go opinion is divided, some love them, some don’t.

But what’s not open to debate is that the Dura Ace discs aren’t up to the rigours of a Belgian Classics campaign. Training and racing at amateur level is never going to approach that level of severity so you may never experience any hassle but when big money, big prestige racing is involved they don’t cut it. The pro mechanics replace the Dura Ace discs with the more rugged Ultegra or even MTB XTR discs but the latter aren’t up to long mountain descents, they’re prone to warping with the heat build-up.

Then there’s rotor size, I read ‘Cyclist’ magazine each month who run all manner of bike tests; the different manufacturers have their own reason for using the rotor size they do. So there’s no standardisation – a nightmare for race service. Then there are the arguments about wheel retention systems – some mechanics advocate power tools for thru bolt fastening and unfastening whilst some don’t. There’s still a long way to go before the beasts are tamed.


...

[fa63]

I feel like there is some misinformation in this opinion piece.

Brake pads are very easy to change; undo the retention pin and screw, pull old pads out, slide new ones in, put screw and pin back in. Takes me no longer than replacing regular brake pads, then as a bonus I don't have to worry about toe-in etc. In fact, it is so easy to do that I periodically remove the pads to lightly sand them with isopropyl; helps keep things quiet.

I have not noticed any warping (I weigh 225 lbs), though I have only done two big mountain descents. The pinging you hear after hard braking goes away after about 3 seconds once everything cools off. I doubt you could even measure the power loss from that little friction.

I am not a pro so I don't have to worry about speed of wheel changes. I can see how that is a problem. But I have to say through axles are pretty great because it positions the wheels exactly the same every time. Makes switching betwen wheels a snap too.

I should also mention that I think disc brakes are totally unnecessary for pros who ride on empty roads and are rarely touching the brakes even on big mountain descents. I wouldn't be happy if I was forced to carry an extra pound up the mountains just to appease the sponsors, but I imagine I would feel OK once I reminded myself that this is how I am getting paid :-)

[rain dogs]

IMHO unless you consider resale when you buy a new bike, if you are buying a road racing bike.... with tighter clearances... say up to 25's/28's AND especially if you're racing in competition, then I personally don't think it's worth it.

But, just like many people who have bought mountain bikes never really ride them offroad, many people who have racing bikes don't/can't race, both of these most likely able to be attributed to the fact that some eons ago there only really existed, en masse, three classes of bikes road, mountain and hybrid (which were generally cheap junk).

Today, we have a bunch of bikes and likely if you're not a competitive racing rider, there is a more fun more versatile "all-road" or "gravel" bike out there for you.... and those certainly should have disk brakes.

[Mikej]

So would a new road bike with rims brakes have 142 TA?

[NHAero]

That's a question I hadn't thought of!

I have two bikes with disc brakes and QR; one with discs and TA, non-boost; and several with rim and QR. It is a drag to not be able to move wheels around as I did in the old days :-)

I now have a spare set of wheels for each wheel type in case of a failure. The one i still need is a non-boost TA set for the MTB with the XD driver, so I keep me eyes peeled for that. Once I find a bike I like for a particular use, I keep it, so I should get the wheelset for the MTB. I have a replacement drivetrain sitting in the drawer (SRAM XX1 11 speed) that I picked up for very little $, since I'm happy with that tech and not expecting to go to 12 speed or electronic on that bike.

Originally Posted by Mikej

So would a new road bike with rims brakes have 142 TA?

[unterhausen]

Who is John Eustice?

[R3awak3n]

bla bla bla... bla bla bla... ride what you want... lets stop with this non sense

[Clancy]

I’ve noticed on my disc brakes I can get them adjusted to be perfect, no noise or rubbing, but after a few rides I’ll get some rubbing again. Readjust, fine, a few rides, rubbing, readjust, fine.....

Overall for me I’ll take disc brakes only because of thru axles and bigger tires. If that wasn’t the case they wouldn’t be worth the extra cost/weight/hassle.

[Tickdoc]

Returning a hydraulic disc braking ultegra giant tcr today after a three day rental. I am happy to report that I am happy to go home to my rim brakes and my own bikes. Like my rental car, the bike was fine, perfectly adequate, and it stuffed into the backseat of my rental car, but it wasn’t like oh my god I’m stopping so much better! The carbon frame, tubeless road tires, aluminum rim, sloping toptube , generic plastic bike was heavier than any of my regular rides at home, and the worst part is, my pinky and thumb did not know what to do ghost shifting the whole way.

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by Clancy

I’ve noticed on my disc brakes I can get them adjusted to be perfect, no noise or rubbing, but after a few rides I’ll get some rubbing again. Readjust, fine, a few rides, rubbing, readjust, fine.....

Overall for me I’ll take disc brakes only because of thru axles and bigger tires. If that wasn’t the case they wouldn’t be worth the extra cost/weight/hassle.

Are they new? Is it cold out? Wheel being remove / tight enough? I would look for a pad alignment shim tool. I know Hayes makes one. But yeah, sometimes I sand down a slight bit of pad material when new to prevent this.

[NHAero]

I have Shimano hydro discs on three bikes, and one has TA and the other two have QR. I don't have this issue with my bikes. So if you have hydros, I'm wondering what is causing your issues? Which brand?

My one remaining set of cable actuated discs are Avid BB7s on the Big Dummy. They're 10 years old, and from time to time I do have to adjust them. I've tended to think that is exacerbated by the really long cable run to the rear brake. It's not worth it to me to switch these to hydros, though I think that would solve that problem.

Originally Posted by Clancy

I’ve noticed on my disc brakes I can get them adjusted to be perfect, no noise or rubbing, but after a few rides I’ll get some rubbing again. Readjust, fine, a few rides, rubbing, readjust, fine.....

Overall for me I’ll take disc brakes only because of thru axles and bigger tires. If that wasn’t the case they wouldn’t be worth the extra cost/weight/hassle.

[OtayBW]

This is the comment from the article that caught my attention:

I endured a veritable chorus of disc brake fervour from my Central Park riding friends, about how, “you’ll be sorry if you don’t get them”

For Central Park....

[ltwtsculler91]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

IMHO unless you consider resale when you buy a new bike, if you are buying a road racing bike.... with tighter clearances... say up to 25's/28's AND especially if you're racing in competition, then I personally don't think it's worth it.

But, just like many people who have bought mountain bikes never really ride them offroad, many people who have racing bikes don't/can't race, both of these most likely able to be attributed to the fact that some eons ago there only really existed, en masse, three classes of bikes road, mountain and hybrid (which were generally cheap junk).

Today, we have a bunch of bikes and likely if you're not a competitive racing rider, there is a more fun more versatile "all-road" or "gravel" bike out there for you.... and those certainly should have disk brakes.

I think this is a perfect synthesis of the disc v rim debate. For Pros/Racers looking for max performance on 25-30mm (actual size) tires, Rim brakes still make sense given the weight and wheel swap challenges, especially at the pro level with the full mech support they get.

For MOST non-performance oriented riders, discs provide a great option as they allow for a bigger tire for greater comfort and "all-road" ability to explore some new paths.

[biker72]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

bla bla bla... bla bla bla... ride what you want... lets stop with this non sense

+1
I own 3 bikes...one rim brake and 2 disc. They all work fine..

[colker]

Originally Posted by mcteague

I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire but found this POV interesting. I do see disks as the future of road bikes, even though I only own rim brake bikes. I expect them to be improved a lot in the coming years but tend to agree with Eustice, not sure I would get them today if I were getting a new bike.


Tim

https://pezcyclingnews.com/features/...mco-evenepoel/

We recently spotted a post by former US Professional Road Champion, John Eustice on disc brakes, which we reproduce his with his kind permission:

“The big issue with my new Pinarello, was of course the decision on whether to go to disc brakes or not. I endured a veritable chorus of disc brake fervour from my Central Park riding friends, about how, “you’ll be sorry if you don’t get them” and so forth, yet something held me back. I kept thinking about Team Ineos who, with that massive budget allowing them free rein in equipment choice, combined with their deep research abilities, have stuck to rim brakes.

I also spoke with a team director friend who, surprisingly, told me that his disc brake equipped riders begged him all year to allow them to change over to rim brakes for the Tour de France – it didn’t happen. I ended up with a rim brake machine and am so happy I did, especially after hanging with the mechanics down in Colombia (at the Tour Colombia 2.1) and getting the – emphatically off the record – inside views on the current equipment situation. The one theme I kept hearing was that the bicycle industry is using teams for product development rather than putting them on perfected equipment. The SRAM derailleur failures last year are an example of this practice. Many issues still remain with disc brake systems. Besides the fact that they add 500 grams (one pound) to a bicycle and make wheel changes difficult and slow, the brake rotors are constantly warping, sometimes even after a single hard descent. That “ping-ping-ping” of the rotor hitting the sides of the brake, which seems as thin as credit card swipe, drives racers (and everyone else I’m assuming) mad and is source of drag to boot. Brake pads are fast-wearing and changing them is certainly much more difficult than it is for rim systems.”

I’ve never ridden a bike with discs so I’m not the one to give informed opinion on the subject but on our recent mission to, ‘The Opening Weekend’ in Flanders we chatted to one of our hugely experienced WorldTour mechanic amigos, he gave us similar comments to the ones John heard. As far as the riders go opinion is divided, some love them, some don’t.

But what’s not open to debate is that the Dura Ace discs aren’t up to the rigours of a Belgian Classics campaign. Training and racing at amateur level is never going to approach that level of severity so you may never experience any hassle but when big money, big prestige racing is involved they don’t cut it. The pro mechanics replace the Dura Ace discs with the more rugged Ultegra or even MTB XTR discs but the latter aren’t up to long mountain descents, they’re prone to warping with the heat build-up.

Then there’s rotor size, I read ‘Cyclist’ magazine each month who run all manner of bike tests; the different manufacturers have their own reason for using the rotor size they do. So there’s no standardisation – a nightmare for race service. Then there are the arguments about wheel retention systems – some mechanics advocate power tools for thru bolt fastening and unfastening whilst some don’t. There’s still a long way to go before the beasts are tamed.


...

This post seals the deal.. and not only for me. The fanatics can shout as long as they want. I don´t care about disc brakes. Unless i am forced otherwise i chose rim brakes.