Reflections on classic steel

[axel23]

A few years back, I put considerable effort into restoring a Raleigh Pro from the late 70s. I found a frame just my size, in excellent condition, with fork and Campagnolo headset. I was determined that everything should be "period correct."

Over a period of months, I had everything, including an older Brooks Pro. I used Phil's grease on all the bearings, carefully trued the wheels, found new cable housings (Campy) and the original TT cable clamps. I brought everything to top condition. The attached picture was the result (though I changed the bars and stem to Cinelli, since the 3T were a decade newer).

After the first test to make sure everything worked well (including the Regina chain), I took it for various longer rides. At a minimum, I thought I could channel my carefree early racing days. At best, I would have a great bike to show-off on group rides.

But reality got in the way. The frame felt sluggish, braking was awful, shifting while out of the saddle was a chore, toe clips were more awkward than I remembered, the narrow tires were harsh, the Brooks was not the dream saddle I remembered... Well, you get the idea. It simply was no fun to ride.

Aside from realizing that the past may not have been as great as we think it was, I came away with increased admiration for Eroica riders. I don't know how they do it. It's one thing to forge ahead when you don't have any alternatives - and could hardly have imagined carbon frames weighing less than 1000 grams, and 24-speed gear trains, and electronic shifting and disc brakes.

So more power to those who restore those beautiful steel frames to their original glory. And don't get me wrong. I still ride a Ron Stout (1985) and a Tommasini (1989), both with Columbus tubing, and I love them. But the former has DA 7800 and the latter has DA 7700 and what a world of difference that makes.

Now someone tell me how wimpy I am - and to grit my teeth and love the old Campagnolo Nuovo Record gruppo. But you know, I'll choose the present (and the future: 1x13?!) and not look back.

[charliedid]

Amen

I'm with you and I owned that exact bike in the 70's and don't want it back

[pjm]

It sure is nice to look at.

[peanutgallery]

I rehabbed an old race bike of mine from the late 80s, rode it to the beer store...once. It's a museum piece now and riding it was far from what I can remember. A $500 Sirrus is way more refined. Oh well...it looks cool

[Elefantino]

I've had three old SLX bikes in the past 10 years and have replaced all the old bits with new bits. New gears and wheels breathe life into old horses.

My butt would run from another B-17!


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[jtbadge]

I like a lugged steel frame as much as the next guy, but I totally agree with this.

Give me:
-integrated shifters
-dual pivot brake calipers
-27-28c tires
-compact cranks
-clipless pedals
-sealed bearings
All day long.

Period correct is so weird.

[Peter P.]

Wimpy? Hell; you're a full-blown wanker!

[tctyres]

Campy NR is basically non functional compared to modern drivetrain mechs. I don't know why people like it. I get that it didn't break while racing in the 1960s and 1970s, so that was a big advantage.

I did have a bike with 600/Ultegra 8s downtube shifters a few years ago. It was fun. Right now, I have 1 9s, 1 10s, and 3 11s bikes + a singlespeed. I wouldn't go out of my way for 10s or less right now. The singlespeed is a special case.

[HTupolev]

Depends so much on the particulars.

My '79 Fuji America might be my favorite road bike.
Pedaling is temperamental, the bike can feel like it's "kicking back" if it doesn't like the power stroke, but it feels amazing when the frame and myself are in accord.
Gearing isn't much of a problem. The Sugino Mighty Tour 110BCD triple is currently set up 52-42-34, and the freewheel is a 14-16-18-21-24-28. The low gear is basically the same as on many modern road bikes, and while the high gear is a few steps lower than modern race gearing, it's still good enough for cruising above 30mph and hard efforts over 40mph. Although the freewheel is wide, 1.5-step double-shifts can be used to get tight ratios when they're needed. Front shifting is snappier than modern wide road doubles thanks to the smaller jumps between rings. The rear derailleur shifts great and has plenty of chain wrap to spare. The LD-1400 ratcheting bar-end shifters have a lovely tactile feel.
Brakes are probably the biggest sore point. Decent brakes did exist at the time, but the fashion of the day meant that most road bikes were fitted with sidepull single-pivot calipers in the style of Campy Record. These brakes were generally pretty spongy, and even though I've fit them with low-compression housing and fairly aggressive pads, they're still in the range of "kinda alright maybe" and a long ways from "good."
The bike was spec'd with a leather saddle, but some were shipped with Avocet Touring I saddles instead, and that's what I have. I love it. Despite being a perfectly capable "touring" saddle, it also works for aggressive road riding, and has the most comfortable "rivet" position that I've ever experienced on a road saddle.

Tensioned leather saddles are complicated. They're hard, but provide excellent damping. If the sitbones are acclimated to them, they can be very plush. They also breathe well, and can be very effective for avoiding chafing on hot rides.
What seems to me the biggest issue, especially for Brooks, is that they can be quite restrictive in terms of postures. You can't jam your sitbones against a hard surface in a way that they're not very okay with and expect it to work. If you're someone who moves around on the saddle a lot, this can be a deal breaker. I was using a Brooks Swift for a while on one bike, and it was wonderful for relaxed summer centuries, but agonizing when I tried to get low and forward on hard group rides. I just couldn't fit it to accommodate both situations.

I've got a second old road bike, an '83 Miyata 710. It's an amusing counterpart to my Emonda: they're both vibrant red road bikes that occupied a similar role in their respective catalogs. They share very similar steering behavior, and also pedal similarly, tight and more agnostic to power stroke than the old Fuji.
The Miyata's gearing is basically the same as the Fuji's except without the 34-tooth chainring. On routes with lots of steep climbing, that's a significant disadvantage. Once I got the hang of the downtube shifters, I found that they actually made double-shifts very slick, so operating the drivetrain ends up feeling decent most of the time on solo rides or in cooperative pacelines.

Originally Posted by jtbadge

I like a lugged steel frame as much as the next guy, but I totally agree with this.

Give me:

-27-28c tires

Most road bikes made prior to the late 1980s can fit 28mm tires no problem. Many can fit 32s comfortably. On my '79 Fuji, I currently have 27mm tires (Vittoria Open Pave) and full-length fenders.

-clipless pedals

Yeah, pedals are a respect in which all of my bikes are modern.

Toe clips work as well as clipless when pedaling, but they're clunkier to use, and won't release the foot if it twists in a crash.

-sealed bearings

I haven't actually had much trouble with unsealed bearings.

I got that old Fuji after it spent several decades in a shed, and I didn't bother servicing the headset or bottom bracket until after putting thousands of often-rainy miles on the bike. According to alarming internet stories about unsealed bearings, I totally ruined them a hundred times over. But when I opened them up, I found that the races were still in excellent shape, once I managed to separate them from the forty-year-old grease.

I can't say I dislike sealed bearings, though! The Fuji came with SunShine Gyromaster hubs, which used sealed cartridges. On the front wheel, I haven't even replaced the original bearings!

[jamesdak]

I guess everyone is a better rider than me. I don't feel any of my old steel holds me back. I feel I hold it back. I also feel that my steel takes so much better care of my body than my C.F. bikes did on the crappy roads I ride. So much so that a few years ago I sold off the Madone and CR1 Pro. Don't miss them at all.

Of course an honest effort for me is only 19 mph avg for a 20+ mile ride with a break into the 20 mph avg on a really good day. Solo of course. I have no desire in group riding. So DT shifters don't bother me at all.

Now that said, I'm not against upgrading an old steel bike and probably half my rides are sporting modern groupsets and tires. And clipless pedals are pretty much a must. But the classic steel frames don't cause me any concern. Sometimes I'll get one that feels sluggish or too flexy and I'll move it on. But I've got plenty of fast rides on a whole slew of old steel and certainly pass my share of modern bikes on my rides. Heck, I take great joy when riding my late 80s steel pink Giordana sporting 6 speed and DT shifters when I can run down, pass, and drop a paceline of clup riders on their C.F. bikes. Old man in hot pink on a pink bike passing them, LOL!

I've nothing against new bikes, I just don't see a need for them so my reflections of classic steel are quite positive.

All sorts of classic steel to give joyful rides.

Mostly all original:







Upgraded wheels, this has my PR for my daily 25 mile route:



32 years old but modern components/wheels. This has a few local sprint KOMs.



1985 Belgium Rocket:



Another mid 80's clunker that flies when I get on it.



Ok, one concession. This one may not be that fast but man is it a good ride. I've actually never tried to go hard on it as I'm sorta afraid of braking the Delrin plastic original components.



As you can see, I'm a bit biased.

[redir]

My '81 Guerciotti is the most comfortable riding bike in my stable. I don't ride it often but when I do it fills me with joy.

How often do you really need to shift while out of the saddle anyway?

[PeregrineA1]

I with @jamesdak, even to the point that I too got rid of a Madone and a CR1-Pro in favor of my steel bikes. I have some that are downtube shifted, close to original 70’s spec and others with modern drivetrains, as well as state of the art custom steel. Love and ride them all.


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[Tandem Rider]

Modern bikes are definitely easier to ride, lighter, etc. I would never want to line up with a number on riding classic steel again. It's like bringing a pocket knife to a gunfight. BUT, I still have a couple of my old racebikes, they still work, I still ride them, sometimes. They are cool to look at, neat to ogle, kinda fun to ride, sometimes. It's kinda like owning and driving an old 1960 Ford pickup in great shape with an unsychronized transmission.

[mj_michigan]

My 80's Centurion (Tange 2) is the most comfortable bike I've got.
Some upgrades over the years:
1. Dual pivot brakes
2. Re-spaced rear drop-outs (following Sheldon Brown's instruction) from
126 to 130mm for 8-speed gears --> new wheels, cassette, shifters
3. Clipless pedals
4. New rear derailer (broke the original Shimano 600)
Running 28mm Conti 4-Season and could fit some 30mm, but maybe not 32s.

However, I cannot set a personal Strava record on it to save my life.
It just wiggles under me when I press hard.

[mtechnica]

My eroica bike was really not much worse than my modern bikes but it has 8 speed dura ace and a columbus SLX frame and nice wheels, and fits the same as my modern bikes, so I guess that shouldn’t be surprising. I did the long route and would happily do it again, don’t have any extra sympathy for me lol. I haven’t tried but I bet I could get trophies on strava with it if I wanted to.