New single speed design opinions

[SpaceOdyssey]

I am looking for a little help from my forum freinds.

I am working towards getting a new properly dimensioned frame for my single speed. It will probably be a lugged steel frame built by one of our forumites who is geographically close to me and can get it built fairly quickly.

My plan is to have the frame built in my road bike geometry but with cantilever brakes and clearance for cross tires because you know that up here in New England those woods call our names after Labor Day.

The frame will have vertical rear dropouts and a rear derailleur hanger just in case I change my mind and want to put gears on it.

The questions I still have are:

1. Does anyone have experience with the eccentric bottom brackets on fixed gear / single speed bikes? (this will require a fillet brazed shell if I go this route)

2. Opinions on whether to stay with road geometry or go full cross geometry?

3. Steel fork (lugged) or carbon fork (this will make the bike fillet brazed)?

4a. Paint suggestions? The bike will be predominately a dark blue. Pinstripe the lug outlines? Contrasting lug panels? Contrasting lugs?

4b. Contrast color suggestions?

I know the builder will read this, but as I told him, I can't even start until I get 100% sure of everything in the plan.

Thanks for the anticipated help.

[J.Greene]

Steel Fork

Let the builder handle the design issues based on the probablility of use. Your paying him for a reason atmo.

orange contrasts with blue very well, just ask my FL Gators.

JG

Originally Posted by SpaceOdyssey

I am looking for a little help from my forum freinds.

I am working towards getting a new properly dimensioned frame for my single speed. It will probably be a lugged steel frame built by one of our forumites who is geographically close to me and can get it built fairly quickly.

My plan is to have the frame built in my road bike geometry but with cantilever brakes and clearance for cross tires because you know that up here in New England those woods call our names after Labor Day.

The frame will have vertical rear dropouts and a rear derailleur hanger just in case I change my mind and want to put gears on it.

The questions I still have are:

1. Does anyone have experience with the eccentric bottom brackets on fixed gear / single speed bikes? (this will require a fillet brazed shell if I go this route)

2. Opinions on whether to stay with road geometry or go full cross geometry?

3. Steel fork (lugged) or carbon fork (this will make the bike fillet brazed)?

4a. Paint suggestions? The bike will be predominately a dark blue. Pinstripe the lug outlines? Contrasting lug panels? Contrasting lugs?

4b. Contrast color suggestions?

I know the builder will read this, but as I told him, I can't even start until I get 100% sure of everything in the plan.

Thanks for the anticipated help.

[harlond]

How are you going to achieve proper chain tension with vertical dropouts?

[christian]

1) If you're getting vertical dropouts, I don't see what other option you have. Paragon sliding dropouts, I suppose. Or run a chain tensioner, but that's like tucking your pant leg in your dress sock. I don't know if anyone other than Surly (KM) and Sacha have those track fork end with a derailleur hanger dropouts, but that's an option too, if you're willing to forgo verticals.

2) Tell the builder how you want to use the bike and let him decide.

3) Steel

4) Contrasting panels are nice and lug outlining is ok. I have never seen contrasting lugs that actually looks ok. If you want it to look sporty, I would go blue with cream panels. If you want it to look classic, I would go blue with gold lug outlining and light cream lug cutouts. For god's sake don't do the latter if you get a carbon fork!

[harlond]

Originally Posted by christian

1) If you're getting vertical dropouts, I don't see what other option you have. Paragon sliding dropouts, I suppose. Or run a chain tensioner, but that's like tucking your pant leg in your dress sock. I don't know if anyone other than Surly (KM) and Sacha have those track fork end with a derailleur hanger dropouts, but that's an option too, if you're willing to forgo verticals.

D'oh! Should have read more carefully about the eccentric BB. So I have nothing to contribute here, but I do wonder about the advantages of an eccentric BB relative to horizontal dropouts.

One thing you can do with vertical dropouts (and a standard BB) is get an ENO eccentric hub, which is nice piece of equipment. It's expensive, however, and I expect most people get one only when they're already committed to a frame with vertical dropouts.

[David Kirk]

Originally Posted by SpaceOdyssey

I am looking for a little help from my forum freinds.

I am working towards getting a new properly dimensioned frame for my single speed. It will probably be a lugged steel frame built by one of our forumites who is geographically close to me and can get it built fairly quickly.

My plan is to have the frame built in my road bike geometry but with cantilever brakes and clearance for cross tires because you know that up here in New England those woods call our names after Labor Day.

The frame will have vertical rear dropouts and a rear derailleur hanger just in case I change my mind and want to put gears on it.

The questions I still have are:

1. Does anyone have experience with the eccentric bottom brackets on fixed gear / single speed bikes? (this will require a fillet brazed shell if I go this route) FROM WHERE IS SIT THE ECCENTRIC BB IS OVERKILL. USE SOME OLD SCHOOL CAMPY HORIZONTAL DROPS AND YOU ARE GOOD TO GO. I HAVE A BUNCH OF 1010A'S IF YOU NEED A SET.

2. Opinions on whether to stay with road geometry or go full cross geometry? UNLESS YOU'LL BE HOPPING ON AND OFF IT USE ROAD NUMBERS OR A HYBRID OF THE TWO.

3. Steel fork (lugged) or carbon fork (this will make the bike fillet brazed)? STEEL FORK. IF CARBON USE A 1" AND YOU CAN HAVE YOUR LUGS.

4a. Paint suggestions? The bike will be predominately a dark blue. Pinstripe the lug outlines? Contrasting lug panels? Contrasting lugs? BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

4b. Contrast color suggestions?

I know the builder will read this, but as I told him, I can't even start until I get 100% sure of everything in the plan.

Thanks for the anticipated help.

SOUNDS LIKE A FUN PROJECT. ENJOY THE PROCESS AND please excuse the all caps. The responses are buried in your message.

Dave

[sg8357]

Bin the the vertical drops, get Campy 1010s with adjuster screws.
The adjuster screws let you set the wheel forward to the correct
position so the indexed shifting will work. Then fixed is easy.

Fork steel, pretty curves and you can use brazed on center pulls.

Scott G.

[weatherman]

Originally Posted by harlond

D'oh! Should have read more carefully about the eccentric BB. So I have nothing to contribute here, but I do wonder about the advantages of an eccentric BB relative to horizontal dropouts.

One thing you can do with vertical dropouts (and a standard BB) is get an ENO eccentric hub, which is nice piece of equipment. It's expensive, however, and I expect most people get one only when they're already committed to a frame with vertical dropouts.

I run an EBB on my singlespeed mountain bike (Moots 29er) and an ENO eccentric rear hub on my singlespeed cross bike (steel Gunnar). To date, the ENO has required "less" maintenance/created less issues. Both have been near flawless, but the EBB on my mountain bike requires occasional tensioning/adjustment, can and does impact your "effective" bb height (if that is an issue for you) etc. I do think the EBB is more durable though and likely a better application for offroad use.

In your case, I would suggest the ENO hub and stick with vertical drops. You can then easily switch to gears and not have an EBB to deal with should you choose.

As for road/cross geometry, I would go cross. The singlespeed nature of the bike means you are going to be doing some different stuff with it, riding it differently than a true road bike etc. The cross geometry makes that easier. I take my rig out on local club rides every so often and have a blast with it. We hit a few rr crossings or gravel/construction areas and all the guys on road rigs slow way down and sit up, I just hammer through the stuff and jump the tracks etc. I run Specialized's Burrough CX tires--very fast on the road if you air them up around 100 psi. To be honest, this is one of my favorite bikes!

(Also consider setting it up with cross/bar-top brake levers)--again, more flexibility and more fun. You already have a road bike (I assume), make this something different and fun! That was my plan and it has worked out great, IMHO. Just my $0.0000002

[SpaceOdyssey]

First off, thanks for the input so far.

I currently have a single speed road bike with a Singulator chain tensioner and it all works fine. I plan to re-use the cranks (D-A 9), bars, stem, post, saddle,e tc.

The EBB idea is the builder's and would remove the Singulator from the equation.

I am kind of committed to vertical drop outs and standard road wheels to keep the cost of this project to a budget of sorts.

The top mount brake levers were part of using Empella FroggLegg brakes on this project.

I will talk with the builder about cros geo vs road.

Not keen on gold outlines, but maybe silver.... if I can get painted "deals" to match.

Any more ideas? Smiley? Fixed? Keno? all you single folks?

[nick0137]

I've got an EBB on my commuter/winter training fixed gear made by Carl Strong. Never had any problems with it; makes it dead easy to change sprockets or pick up chain slack as the chain wears in; I've found that the fears about change of seat-tube angle are rather overplayed (which means my insensitive body has never even noticed); and its much easier with mudguards getting the rear wheel out. Can't see any downside, except that it takes those really in the know to see that, even though you don't have track ends, you are riding fixed...