Rock N Roll - Gold vs Extreme?

[joshatsilca]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

I won't nitpic with you, but the one metric that I/we do have the sensitivity to detect is drive train noise. The slightest change will drive me right back to the bottle, and that's what counts for me....

Read the ZFC test reports.. he discusses noise and cleanliness in all of them. Also note that noise is related to wear, since both noise and wear are caused by metal on metal interactions.. so where there is no wear, there is no metal on metal and therefore no noise either!

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by joshatsilca

I think there must be some confusion as to the ZFC protocol.. it's far worse than what most people will throw at their chains and orders of magnitude worse than pro bike see.. though it's probably close to what pros in training do to their home bikes.

The protocol is 6 blocks of 1000km, dry, dry/sandy, dry, wet, dry, wet/sandy
The chains are re-lubricated ever 333km during each block. There is no cleaning, scrubbing, or any of that to reset the chains to zero.. which is meant to test the ability of the lube to clear dirt and water on it's own.

I'd say the protocol is far more similar to doing a transcontinental race than anything in pro racing, and while all of our lubricants have been formulated with friction in mind.. that isn't what this test is measuring. I'd say the ZFC protocol is more like a person who's a 3 on the willy nilly scale ;-)

(and most pros training at home would be a 1!!)

Awesome

Thanks for the education.

[wallymann]

+1 for gold. while i've generally had good success with the OMS/motor-oil based home-brew, i felt gold performed better and lasted a bit longer.

but it looks like i need to check out silca's stuff now...

Originally Posted by PNW

Gold for sure..that’s what I ride and absolutely love how clean it is as well.

[RoosterCogset]

Originally Posted by joshatsilca

Read the ZFC test reports.. he discusses noise and cleanliness in all of them. Also note that noise is related to wear, since both noise and wear are caused by metal on metal interactions.. so where there is no wear, there is no metal on metal and therefore no noise either!

Interesting. One might think that you could slather your chain with axle grease and hear very little, but can't imagine it's a good idea.

[Seramount]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

I won't nitpic with you, but the one metric that I/we do have the sensitivity to detect is drive train noise. The slightest change will drive me right back to the bottle, and that's what counts for me....

I'm a Chain-L user and the tell-tale indication of when to relube is when I can hear ANY chain noise. the stuff makes the chain absolutely silent until it's time to reapply (which is usually 700-800 miles).

oh, and since you used the word nitpic (sic), I just have to nitpick and add this...

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2017/07/nitpick.html

[joshatsilca]

Originally Posted by Seramount

I'm a Chain-L user and the tell-tale indication of when to relube is when I can hear ANY chain noise. the stuff makes the chain absolutely silent until it's time to reapply (which is usually 700-800 miles).

oh, and since you used the word nitpic (sic), I just have to nitpick and add this...

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2017/07/nitpick.html

I had to go with nitpic as it was used prior in the thread! Same for willy nilly!

Also, the timing on this review is too good to pass up as it's a mix of field testing and lab data: https://road.cc/content/review/silca...ip-lube-286041

[oldguy00]

I've always liked silca products, so this isn't a knock against them, just to these articles/studies in general.
I always cringe at the whole 'premature wear' statements.

I know, I've seen the charts on chain wear..... but how many people here have actually had to replace their chain due to bad performance within a year, and felt that, damn, I used the wrong lube and my chain wore out..... Is anyone really trying to use a chain more than 1 or 2 seasons anyway?

Are that many people here having to replace their chain rings and/or pulley wheels after one season because, damn, wrong lube? 99.999% of folks are gonna sell those components ages before they even come close to wearing out. Same with cassettes IMHO.

I've been racing off and on for 32 years now, I've rarely seen a truly worn out chain ring, and once saw a set of truly worn out pulley wheels on a dura ace rear derailleur that had over 20k miles on it, on a bike that was rarely if ever cleaned.......not sure a different lube would have saved them..

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

I've always liked silca products, so this isn't a knock against them, just to these articles/studies in general.
I always cringe at the whole 'premature wear' statements.

I know, I've seen the charts on chain wear..... but how many people here have actually had to replace their chain due to bad performance within a year, and felt that, damn, I used the wrong lube and my chain wore out..... Is anyone really trying to use a chain more than 1 or 2 seasons anyway?

Are that many people here having to replace their chain rings and/or pulley wheels after one season because, damn, wrong lube? 99.999% of folks are gonna sell those components ages before they even come close to wearing out. Same with cassettes IMHO.

I've been racing off and on for 32 years now, I've rarely seen a truly worn out chain ring, and once saw a set of truly worn out pulley wheels on a dura ace rear derailleur that had over 20k miles on it, on a bike that was rarely if ever cleaned.......not sure a different lube would have saved them..

I'm going to guess that you do most of your riding on the road and/or in dry weather. Mucky off-road riding will grind through a drivetrains (chains, cassettes, chainrings) in no time. Even rainy road riding can eat through drivetrains. Many offroad riders go through more than one drivetrain a year. And yes, chain lube makes a difference in these conditions.

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'm going to guess that you do most of your riding on the road and/or in dry weather. Mucky off-road riding will grind through a drivetrains (chains, cassettes, chainrings) in no time. Even rainy road riding can eat through drivetrains. Many offroad riders go through more than one drivetrain a year. And yes, chain lube makes a difference in these conditions.

Fair enough, I thought most of these products were aimed at road riders, not MTB.

[joshatsilca]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

Fair enough, I thought most of these products were aimed at road riders, not MTB.

The 2 things driving the obsession with wear have been 1x and long distance gravel.. 1x drivetrains with smaller front rings and often times rear cassettes that are both crazy $$ and have as many as 50% of the cogs in aluminum have introduced a whole new generation of riders to accelerated drivetrain wear off-road. Remember that we used to spread the wear out over 1 steel and 2 aluminum chainrings, and now all of that is on one aluminum ring.

Secondly, the growth in gravel, and the advent of these 'ultra' distance events have given us the opportunity to see a chain literally worn to the limit in a single event if conditions are right.

ZFC has a chart showing how many kilometers it takes to wear a chain out in single application of a lubricant in various conditions, in wet/muddy conditions, and the best lubes are in the 600+km range, but the worst ones are sub 100km to take a new chain to fully worn out.. that's not even half of an Unbound or Belgian Waffle or the like..

[cal_len1]

Just so some of the roadies in here understand, an XX1 mtb/gravel cassette is $450USD. You can't afford to change that every year.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by Seramount

I'm a Chain-L user and the tell-tale indication of when to relube is when I can hear ANY chain noise. the stuff makes the chain absolutely silent until it's time to reapply (which is usually 700-800 miles).

oh, and since you used the word nitpic (sic), I just have to nitpick and add this...

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2017/07/nitpick.html

HAR! Hadn't seen this in a while, and yes, I must have had some nits on me that I was picing - whoops, picking - off when I wrote that.

But yeah - ANY noise throws me right to the lube bottle right away as well.
Cheers.