What Happened to Tubular Popularity?

[redir]

I don't put chemicals in my Tubular tires. I did try it and all it does is make a mess and it will eventually harden up and then you have a hard chunk in your tire. That and it can glue the valve shut.

[teleguy57]

Originally Posted by Gummee

http://www.challengetech.it/products/mtb/en

edited to add: If you haven't yet, riding tubulars on gravel rides are awesome. Better than tubeless by far.

So I'm a dyed-in-the-wool tubular guy andmoving into the all road/disc world . Have a new set of Bora One tubular disc for my road wheels and have been thinking of a foray into tubeless for for dirt/mixed/gravel.
But it tubulars are good for gravel i would forgo the foray....What tubulars are you riding?

Edited: wait, just realized the link is to Challenge. Per my comment on the other active thread on challenge tubeless -- ok then, no thank you very much...

Originally Posted by sokyroadie

I ride mostly tubulars on shallow (32 - 38) carbon rims, this will be year 3 on one set that has Corsa Elites mounted and I see no reason to re-glue since they are still tightly adhered. Gluing is easy and the ride is great.

I am having a set of Carbon clinchers being built as I write this, the wheelbuilder had to have his arm twisted, but he finally relented.

Hot did you get OldPotatoe to cave?

[zlin]

Originally Posted by teleguy57

So I'm a dyed-in-the-wool tubular guy andmoving into the all road/disc world . Have a new set of Bora One tubular disc for my road wheels and have been thinking of a foray into tubeless for for dirt/mixed/gravel.
But it tubulars are good for gravel i would forgo the foray....What tubulars are you riding?

Edited: wait, just realized the link is to Challenge. Per my comment on the other active thread on challenge tubeless -- ok then, no thank you very much...

I ride these: zero issues on gravel or road or whatever.

[m4rk540]

Originally Posted by redir

I don't put chemicals in my Tubular tires. I did try it and all it does is make a mess and it will eventually harden up and then you have a hard chunk in your tire. That and it can glue the valve shut.

For me, rubber cement is a chemical and it doesn't pass the sniff test.

[denapista]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

I'm risk averse and the thought of losing a tire on a descent should keep me on tubulars. Yet, and I don't have any empirical evidence, the idea of a tire which needs a chemical to be installed goes against my current small footprint approach to life. Recently, I rode a friend's S-Works Tarmac Sl6 on Turbo Cottons. Those tires destroy the tubulars are more supple argument.

Turbo cotton tires are from what I hear, some of the best clinchers out there. I think they're making them in Tubular now...

I equate durability to one thing only, FLATS! Show me someone on a clincher that hasn't flatted in 8-9 months of riding....

[KarlC]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

All the stretching and gluing and waiting for tubulars is not made up for by the marginally superior weight/acceleration/float/etc. I might feel on the very best $$$$ tub. Flatting on the road requires fixing the new tire and then doing it all over again, properly, once I get home. And riding with dirty sticky fingers is distracting.

All the mess and mess and mess of tubeless is not made up for by the uh, well, let's see... by the, um, hmm.... Flatting in the woods requires probably using the emergency innertube in my bag anyway. And then making a big sticky mess getting the tire fixed once I get back home.

Clinchers are simple, they work great and feel as good as tubulars for the short portion of my rides where, "my tires feel so," is even a thought I might have.

I haven't had a flat in years on my commuter clincher Schwalbe Marathon Supreme's. They wear down to slicks before they flat. I have the rare road flat on the various brands on my road bikes, but once it's fixed, it's done.

Tubulars are great, but they peaked in the late 70's or 80's imho, because clinchers and inner tubes (and clincher wheels) have gotten so good and are factors easier to use for DIYers.

This just makes me think that some people have no real recent experience with tubulars or never really gave them a try.

Dont get me wrong I understand how people feel this way, I feel the same way, but I feel that way about clinchers.

I dont really know anything about clinchers, so to me buying, mounting and using them looks to be a PAIN. All the guys I ride with have WAY more issues with their clinchers that I ever do, so I just look at them and think why, why would you put up with that, what a pain.

Im not here to convert anyone to Tubulars, it would just be nice if some of the false info was but to bed. Like ........

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

Flatting on the road requires fixing the new tire and then doing it all over again, properly, once I get home. And riding with dirty sticky fingers is distracting.

First off I flat way way less that my clinchers buddies, when I do have an issue 1 or 2 things happen. 1 its sealed up on it own in a split second and I might never know it happened. 2 its worse, so I pull over and use Pit Stop to fix the leak and air it up at the same time, Im back going again before my clincher buddy even has his tire off. I keep riding that same tire until its dead, there is no reason to change the tire when I get home.

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

.... I might feel on the very best $$$$ tub.

Also why does everyone think tubular tires are $$$, you can by the very best for $50 - $60 delivered to your door. Are the best clinchers and tubes that much less ???

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

.........
Tubulars are great, but they peaked in the late 70's or 80's imho, because clinchers and inner tubes (and clincher wheels) have gotten so good and are factors easier to use for DIYers.

Also why do people think tubulars, the whole process, stretching and gluing and waiting, and the tires themselves where stuck back in the late 70's or 80's ??? And that only clinchers have improved ???

Its confusing


.

[hollowgram5]

Originally Posted by zlin

I ride these: zero issues on gravel or road or whatever.

The 36 Strada Bianca Pros have me intrigued as well. Mighty plump!

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by hollowgram5

The 36 Strada Bianca Pros have me intrigued as well. Mighty plump!

Same. I'm off to hunt some gravel/29er hoops...

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by denapista

Turbo cotton tires are from what I hear, some of the best clinchers out there. I think they're making them in Tubular now...

I equate durability to one thing only, FLATS! Show me someone on a clincher that hasn't flatted in 8-9 months of riding....

How about 10 years without a flat? And before that, I only got flats because i rode badly worn out tires.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

How about 10 years without a flat? And before that, I only got flats because i rode badly worn out tires.

what tires? and where the hell are you ridding?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by KarlC

Not to start a debate but to you have any known and generally agreed upon examples or facts to back these points up ?

About which part of it? That tubulars have more rolling resistance than otherwise similar clinchers has been known for decades, and been demonstrated in many rolling resistance tests. Here's a Velonew article from 2007 in which the greater rolling resistance of tubulars discussed, and there is also discussion of a test in which, even when climbing, a set of wheels with clincher tires went faster than a set of tubular wheels, when ridden at the same power - even though the clincher wheels were 1 lb. heavier:

https://www.velonews.com/2007/06/bik...sistance_12493

The above article also has a link to a BikeTechReview discussion which shows that wheel rotational weight matters very little (even when accelerating). Which means that the lower weight of tubular wheels makes little difference in performance, and the difference in rolling resistance has a greater impact.

We recently discussed some rolling resistance tests from the BicycleRollingResistance.com web site. This site has tested some Vittoria tires that are available in both tubular and clincher versions. The clincher versions all have lower rolling resistance. Notably, these tests usually use heavy butyl tubes in the clincher tires (even though other tests on the site show that latex tubes are faster). Even when comparing the clincher version of tire with a butyl tube to a tubular which uses a latex innertube, the clincher version is still faster:

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

A quick google search will find multiple other tests showing clinchers have lower rolling resistances.

I'm sure you can dig up some weights of comparable clincher and tubular wheels at manufacturer sites. You'll find that the clinchers are typically 50-100g per wheel heavier. Likewise, I'm sure that you can dig up some comparable tires and tubes, and you'll find a clincher tire plus a tube is within grams of the weight of a comparable tubular tire (be sure the comparison uses the same type of tube for the clincher that is in the tubular). Below is a link an on-line cycling performance analysis tool that you can plug the weights and rolling resistance values into to see the difference in performance in a variety of different scenarios. I think you'll find that the only place the tubulars offer a performance advantage is up steep hills (where rolling resistance is small because the speeds are low, and weight differences matter more):

https://analyticcycling.com/

Sometimes people ask, "if clinchers perform better, why do pros still use tubulars?" Partly it is for historical reasons, and partly it is because the ability to ride a flat tubular can mitigate their slightly lower rolling performance. But pros don't always use tubulars - the place that clinchers make the biggest difference is in time trials, and many pros now do time trials on clinchers (ask Tony Martin - he's won 4 World Championships on clincher tires).

Originally Posted by KarlC

As an example most guys I know that ride A LOT dont see the need to carry a spare tubular tire these days. Instead they carry something like orange seal ........

Some times a tire cuts are too large to seal with sealant. Clincher tires can be easily booted in this case, but for tubular you'd need a spare tire. I've booted clinchers several times, allowing me to finish a ride, but for tubulars you'd need a new tire. What's our plan for these situations?

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

what tires? and where the hell are you ridding?

I have gone several sets of tires without a flat. My only secrets are to make sure the tires are inflated correctly and inspecting them for glass etc. after rides. It's a touring bike and a tandem so it has Continental Gatorskins. I have ridden the same tires in Louisiana, Maryland, Arkansas, Michigan, Netherlands and France.

[m4rk540]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Then don't use them..I see no compelling reason to own any clinchers..all I own are tubulars..

"wear more quickly"..ahh. no..a lot of 'open' clincher casings re the same as the tubular..so 4 to 4..a draw!!

Did you charge the same to replace a tubular as a clincher for those who can't fix their own flats? Around here shops charge $30, not including glue, for tubulars and $15 for clinchers. Most of the guys I ride with gave up on tubulars when shops doubled their fees.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by denapista

Turbo cotton tires are from what I hear, some of the best clinchers out there. I think they're making them in Tubular now...

I equate durability to one thing only, FLATS! Show me someone on a clincher that hasn't flatted in 8-9 months of riding....

I did just under 5k miles last year, on Michelin Pro4s, and did not get any flats.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by denapista

Most people that complain of gluing, have never done so... I've been on the same set of Veloflex Vlaanderen tires for close to a year now. My clincher friends have been through so many tubes in that time. Factor in the cost of tubes to my set of tires that have yet to flatten once....

Did we all not learn how to glue as kids? It's pretty damn easy. If you flat, you're done for the day. Come home, glue up another tire and mount it. Ready to ride the next day. If you're on a long ride, carry a spare in a cut water bottle in your cage, to alleviate the ugly look under the saddle. If you're concerned about water, then buy a larger water bottle to carry and use the other cage for your spare. I've ridden home 30-40mi on a spare once and it was a bitch to get the spare off. So that's how good a spare is with a little glue on it...

I attribute tubular fear to the internet and old techniques in gluing that are all over the internet from Zipp, etc. It does not take 2 full days to glue tires. I glue mount and wait til the next morning to ride. Do you think Pro mechanics are waiting 48 hours to let glue cure? Two light coats, mount and let sit until the next day before your ride...

I would never buy a race car and put crappy tires on it. Porsche, Lambo, etc all develop their cars with tires in mind. If you can show me a clincher tire that can equate ride quality and durability to a Veloflex Vlaanderen, or Veloflex Record then....

Ahhgeez, it's not ugly if you do it right.

Yup, some of the BS about the really simple task of gluing on a tubie is amazing..I've read about a Armstrong mechanic(Julian Devries..SP?), that took 3-4 days to glue on one set of tires..really silly.

Tubies have real advantages. Most who whine about them have have never used, or glued..and if they had, it was 3 decades ago.

There is another thread here about ANOTHER wee 'horror' story about tubeless, the mess, the goop everywhere, the big cut in tire, gotta call for help..etc..see this quite often here and on other bikie forums. So gotta wonder why mess with tubeless..MTB, you betcha, road bike..