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Old 08-08-2019, 08:55 PM
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berserk87 berserk87 is offline
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Overly complicated seat clamping mechanism

I just got a new TT bike (an Argon 18 E117) a few weeks ago. Like the other such bikes that I have had a chance to ride, the seat mast is an aerodynamic carbon fiber thingie.

The saddle clamping mechanism seems like it was designed by an engineer on meth trying to find a way to vex the home mechanic. I took the saddle off to adjust the clamp fore-aft and the actual clamping part fell off into five different pieces. Naturally I didn't study it enough before it fell apart, so I the pleasure of trying to figure out how it went back together. That took a minute. And it didn't seem like I had enough hands when I was putting it back in place.

One of the worst examples that I have seen is a Cervelo P3 that was about 10 years old. It took me and my wife to get a saddle mounted on it. That's four hands, and again, it did not seem like enough.

Are there any examples of saddle retention systems/clamping mechanisms that are actually simple and easy to use on these kind of bikes? Or are they all a rolling ball of nightmares?

I've gone retro on my road bike, and am using an old Dura Ace post with a one-bolt adjustment. I dig it. It works and it's easy to use, but it's a simple, round post. Manufacturers don't seem to want to go with round posts on TT bikes these days.
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:28 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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Wish I could help, man.

This week I put a new saddle on my Ritchey WCS 1-Bolt seat post. It's impressive how light, simple and effective that design is.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:03 PM
shoota shoota is offline
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Thanks for reminding me why I've sworn off stupid proprietary designs. Bikes should be simple and fun machines.
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  #4  
Old 08-09-2019, 06:36 AM
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Most of the time, it is all about know-hows, as stuff like that usually do not have instructions. Even with some instructions included, most people probably do not bother to read them.

For an example, with Ritchey's one-bolt clamp I can remove and re-install and re-adjust in less than 5 min while I bet that it will take much longer for most people not familiar with it. I bet that most people would take the whole clamp apart to remove and install while I do the same thing with the whole clamp assembly intact. This is just one of many examples that I find knowledge is everything when working on some seemingly simple things.
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:09 AM
fmradio516 fmradio516 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Wish I could help, man.

This week I put a new saddle on my Ritchey WCS 1-Bolt seat post. It's impressive how light, simple and effective that design is.
Heh as soon as I saw the title of this thread, i immediately thought of this Ritchey I acquired recently.

It has this rubber, what i call spider webby thing that constantly came off while i was trying to work it, and it was just so much fun trying to get a saddle in there. Needless the say, im probably not going to be swapping saddles on that one very often.
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:12 AM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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With almost any seat post, I find taking it off the bike makes it much easier to remove and install a saddle. Pulling a seat post regularly isn't a bad idea. Ask anyone who has dealt with a stuck post.
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
With almost any seat post, I find taking it off the bike makes it much easier to remove and install a saddle. Pulling a seat post regularly isn't a bad idea. Ask anyone who has dealt with a stuck post.
That works with a conventional, round, road bike post, most certainly. It doesn't on the newer proprietary clamps on carbon aero seat masts. Therein lies my beef.
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:50 AM
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Tickdoc Tickdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berserk87 View Post
I just got a new TT bike (an Argon 18 E117) a few weeks ago. Like the other such bikes that I have had a chance to ride, the seat mast is an aerodynamic carbon fiber thingie.

The saddle clamping mechanism seems like it was designed by an engineer on meth trying to find a way to vex the home mechanic. I took the saddle off to adjust the clamp fore-aft and the actual clamping part fell off into five different pieces. Naturally I didn't study it enough before it fell apart, so I the pleasure of trying to figure out how it went back together. That took a minute. And it didn't seem like I had enough hands when I was putting it back in place.

One of the worst examples that I have seen is a Cervelo P3 that was about 10 years old. It took me and my wife to get a saddle mounted on it. That's four hands, and again, it did not seem like enough.

Are there any examples of saddle retention systems/clamping mechanisms that are actually simple and easy to use on these kind of bikes? Or are they all a rolling ball of nightmares?

I've gone retro on my road bike, and am using an old Dura Ace post with a one-bolt adjustment. I dig it. It works and it's easy to use, but it's a simple, round post. Manufacturers don't seem to want to go with round posts on TT bikes these days.
This post reminds me of my cervelo s3's post. Oval, and when you tightened the saddle it would tip forward as you tightened. You had to guess where level would be once torqued to get the thing flat or it would nosedive. So frustrating.

Best of luck, OP.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:09 AM
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I'm curious now. Can you post a pic?
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  #10  
Old 08-09-2019, 09:12 AM
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BRad704 BRad704 is offline
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Here ya go, check page 6.

https://www.argon18bike.com/uploads/files/e-117tri-assemblyguide-en-17.pdf
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  #11  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:14 AM
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YesNdeed YesNdeed is offline
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Makes mine sound simple. This is on a 2010 Bianchi Pico Crono. I always felt the design of this mast topper was ridiculous, with superfluous amounts of metal. Adjusting for and aft is not intuitive and took me what felt like an hour to do some simple adjustments. What you can't see in the picture is how the base of it rests on the top of the mast. The topper has a curvy contour, and it's nearly impossible to make it flush with top edge of the mast after cutting it to length, even with a hand file. That aspect isn't super critical after tightening the topper, but to fully utilize the min/max height limits of the topper, it should make contact with the top edge. This is also why I don't ever need a frame with an integrated seat mast again. Sorry for the large, sideways picture.

Good luck getting it worked out!
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File Type: jpg IMG_2530 2.jpg (63.7 KB, 131 views)

Last edited by YesNdeed; 08-09-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:33 AM
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unnecessarily complicated. with all the side clamping force without a knurl or serrations on the half arch it could still slip.
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:33 PM
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berserk87 berserk87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRad704 View Post
Many thanks. Mine was purchased from a shop that was going out of business and did not come with any else but the bike. No manual.

The portion that was frustrating me is shown on page 7. CMG thankfully posted a pic of it above. I just don't get why this mechanism can't be simpler. Six separate pieces and three bolts folks. That's overkill.

Last edited by berserk87; 08-09-2019 at 02:41 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:42 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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That actually looks very similar to the Ritchey design. Except that the Ritchey design holds it all in with the single horizontal bolt.
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2019, 04:50 PM
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This one?
https://www.cervelo.com/en_CA/sp-csp...h-ritchey-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
That actually looks very similar to the Ritchey design. Except that the Ritchey design holds it all in with the single horizontal bolt.
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