Printed carbon frame in one piece

[merckxman]

"MILAN, Italy – The first production ready carbon frame made by printing in one piece was launched yesterday by Atala in Italy. Accell Group, who owns 50 percent of Atala’s shares, selected this Italian company to launch this groundbreaking production technology."

[Veloo]

Is there a link?

[nicrump]

*delete*

[ultraman6970]

Is atala even in business?? the website doesnt work at least for me.

[mulp]

I'm curious to see if this is even a step up from what we have. If they print the entire bike then there is no carbon layup which strengthens in one direction verse another. Printing a carbon bike is pretty much just relying on the resin to hold everything together. This is kind of no different from grinding carbon fiber into powder, mixing with resin and injecting into a mold....not sure if this is an evolution...

[bicycletricycle]

Every time I hear "carbon" in 3D printing material I look to see if someone has actually figured out a way to insert long strands into the resin matrix. So far just ground up carbon dust

Originally Posted by mulp

I'm curious to see if this is even a step up from what we have. If they print the entire bike then there is no carbon layup which strengthens in one direction verse another. Printing a carbon bike is pretty much just relying on the resin to hold everything together. This is kind of no different from grinding carbon fiber into powder, mixing with resin and injecting into a mold....not sure if this is an evolution...

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Every time I hear "carbon" in 3D printing material I look to see if someone has actually figured out a way to insert long strands into the resin matrix. So far just ground up carbon dust

Effectively, this material is carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic. It is stiffer and stronger than pure thermoplastic, but no where near as stiff and strong as continuous filament carbon fiber. Carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic has already been used in bicycle parts. For example, Campagnolo Ergopower/Ultrashift/Powershift lever bodies are made of carbon fiber reinforced polymer. The knuckles of Campagnolo Potenza derailleurs also use carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic. But these are cast parts - 3D printing opens up other possibilities in designing parts like this.

That being said, I have heard of potential uses of 3D printing for long strand carbon fiber, in a sort of hybrid process. In this method, a 'scaffold' is created using conventional 3D printing, and then carbon fiber filaments are wound around the scaffold. I don't know how far along the development of this process is, but I suspect that it's use will be primarily for 'custom' carbon fiber parts, rather than for volume production.

[merckxman]

No link but more info:
"The main advantage of printing a carbon frame in one piece is the speed of production. With this technology the production time can be limited to 10 minutes only, a huge difference compared with the handmade carbon frames. Another big advantage is the substantial reduction in weight and the limitation of waste material. The frames are made in Taiwan, though the Atala spokesman could not reveal the name of the production company."
“The impact of this technology will disrupt the market,” says Marco Borgonovo. “The retail price for carbon bikes made with this new technology will be just slightly higher compared to alloy versions. We expect it to break open a new market.”
"The carbon frames made with the new printing technology will be e-MTB ones. The production is scheduled to start July 2020 and they will be used in a range of 7 e-MTB models. They will be branded Whistle which is one of the brands in the Atala portfolio."

[bicycletricycle]

I wonder why nobody has put some strands of carbon in a FDM spool or something.

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Effectively, this material is carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic. It is stiffer and stronger than pure thermoplastic, but no where near as stiff and strong as continuous filament carbon fiber. Carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic has already been used in bicycle parts. For example, Campagnolo Ergopower/Ultrashift/Powershift lever bodies are made of carbon fiber reinforced polymer. The knuckles of Campagnolo Potenza derailleurs also use carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic. But these are cast parts - 3D printing opens up other possibilities in designing parts like this.

That being said, I have heard of potential uses of 3D printing for long strand carbon fiber, in a sort of hybrid process. In this method, a 'scaffold' is created using conventional 3D printing, and then carbon fiber filaments are wound around the scaffold. I don't know how far along the development of this process is, but I suspect that it's use will be primarily for 'custom' carbon fiber parts, rather than for volume production.

[ultraman6970]

As for carbon dust parts easton did or still making parts of that.

[nicrump]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

I wonder why nobody has put some strands of carbon in a FDM spool or something.

Stopping, starting, retraction among a few things. You've printed, think about it.

I'd wager this frame is not 3d printed at all but rather robot or automated tape lay of the usual carbon epoxy prepreg. The press release says 10 minutes to make. Nothing bigger than your pinky ring can be "printed" in 10 minutes regardless of process(FFF, FDM, SLS, SLA, DMLS.....)

The press release also said "launch" not produce... YYMV.

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by nicrump

Stopping, starting, retraction among a few things. You've printed, think about it.

I don't think it would be easy but it seems to me that a lot of those are solveable problems, Easy to say from the cheap seats I know

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by merckxman

No link but more info:
"The main advantage of printing a carbon frame in one piece is the speed of production. With this technology the production time can be limited to 10 minutes only, a huge difference compared with the handmade carbon frames. Another big advantage is the substantial reduction in weight and the limitation of waste material. The frames are made in Taiwan, though the Atala spokesman could not reveal the name of the production company."
“The impact of this technology will disrupt the market,” says Marco Borgonovo. “The retail price for carbon bikes made with this new technology will be just slightly higher compared to alloy versions. We expect it to break open a new market.”
"The carbon frames made with the new printing technology will be e-MTB ones. The production is scheduled to start July 2020 and they will be used in a range of 7 e-MTB models. They will be branded Whistle which is one of the brands in the Atala portfolio."

Here's a link to the press release:
https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends...349.1573154519

My smart person theory is the efficiency gains are due to the "Short Production Tim" who has to be small enough to get in all the small nooks and crannies.
short-production-tim.jpg

[m4rk540]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

My smart person theory is the efficiency gains are due to the "Short Production Tim" who has to be small enough to get in all the small nooks and crannies.

I used to ride with Short Production Tim; he was the worst guy to draft.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

I used to ride with Short Production Tim; he was the worst guy to draft.

Even worse than his cousin Tiny Tim?