What Happened to Campy Popularity?

[mcteague]

I started with Simplex Prestige derailleurs, then Shimano Crane, 600EX and finally got a Nuovo Record rear shifter. It did not work as smoothly as Shimano but worked better under load. A run in with a car got me a new bike and I spec'd Campy Super Record. It shifted by itself at times no matter how it was adjusted. I put on some Simplex shift levers and that helped a bit but I finally got the shop to swap it out with the then new DuraAce SIS stuff. It worked fine.

As time moved on I updated to the integrated shifters and had Ultegra and DuraAce. I never really got on with the lever shape so bought some Record 10s shift levers and the adapter that made it work with Shimano. I loved the lever feel so much I slowly moved all my stuff to Campy. I just love the look and feel of it. If the company folded I would just go back to Shimano and most likely would be happy but would feel less pride in the parts. It sounds silly but that is part of the equation for some reason.

Tim

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Ralph

I ride campy parts because I like them. Always have. They clean up nice, trade well on E bay and such, and different levels work well together. I have the tool and spare parts for what I have.

I am aware they don't really work better than other brands, although they work great, but that's not why I ride them. I guess it goes back to my first good bike I bought in 73....a Campy equipped P 13 Paramount.

I have a buddy of mine who always drive a European car. I ask him why? They cost more, cost more to maintain, etc......He says....I like them. it's what I drive.

That's how I feel about Campagnolo.

Second that.

I started on Campy Nuovo Record equipment in '72, back when you could take apart a bottom bracket, clean the bearings and put it all back together with three simple tools.

I've stuck with Campy ever since, and I expect that for the forseeable future I'll stay on Campy. All of my bikes are Record 10, and given my current annual mileage, I won't need to buy any replacement groups.

Most of my frames have been Italian, with a couple of British (Condor, Raleigh) and American (Merlin, LiteSpeed, Tesch) mixed in. Isn't there a rule that Italian frames have to be built up with Italian parts? I always thought so!

And I drive European cars....

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by earlfoss

The US market seems like a non-priority to Campagnolo. Campy USA could up their game and boost some sales, I'd imagine, but perhaps they're comfortable with their current game and see no reason to make more effort.

You DO know who Campagnolo USA is run by, yes? It took Years to get a van so the tech guy could go on the road. Campag, USA has been trying to up their involvement for years but the $ is controlled by Vicenza...from the desk of Valentino. Don’t blame Tom Kattus and company, he’s doing lots with very limited resources.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Ralph

I ride campy parts because I like them.

Yep.

With apologies to some famous rabbi: "The main idea of Campy is to love thy Campy. Everything else is commentary."

[earlfoss]

Well kudos to Tom for his efforts, then. I’d be one frustrated dude if I were in his position.

I have loved having Campy on my bikes for over 15 years and only changed this season because of a sponsorship with SRAM.

[cadence90]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

You DO know who Campagnolo USA is run by, yes? It took Years to get a van so the tech guy could go on the road. Campag, USA has been trying to up their involvement for years but the $ is controlled by Vicenza...from the desk of Valentino. Don’t blame Tom Kattus and company, he’s doing lots with very limited resources.

Why does (VI) do that, and choose to not be more present in the US? Do they think of it as a lost segment of the market, and so not worth more than an extremely minimal investment?

I would be interested to hear gfk_velo's Campagnolo UK position as well.
.

[FlashUNC]

Let's keep it in context. As Tom pointed out to me at NAHBS in Charlotte, Shimano has more US employees at that show than Tom has for all of Campy NA.

Campys around, what, $150 mln in revenue and Shimano is north of a couple billion across it's various business lines?

Size and scale matter for OEM.

[berserk87]

So in asking "what happened to Campy popularity", has it ever been more popular than it is?

[paredown]

Originally Posted by berserk87

So in asking "what happened to Campy popularity", has it ever been more popular than it is?

Well, when we were racing in the early '70s--in that small window between some less-than-stellar other Euro options (Huret, Simplex) and before the Suntour innovations and the first Dura-Ace--if you could afford it, you bought Campagnolo to go racing.

The combination of brakes that worked (without squealing), shifters that were reliable (alloy), and mechs that shifted reliably (albeit not extremely well), hubs that were beautifully finished and easily rebuilt plus those pro tools that were almost the only thing around (think no Pedros or other aftermarket tools) meant that you really wanted to go racing with Campy and their tools.

This was a small market segment even then I suspect, and the supply of parts and new goods was spotty even then--there was a lot of scrambling to get stuff, including resorting to buying new bikes to strip the groups off to keep product on the shelf for those who wanted it. And that probably added to the sense that you were onto something special...

They did not maintain their edge--and those in the know on the pro tour were already on Dura Ace by the early '80s, and the catch up was difficult for Campagnolo...

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by bigbill

Get a 9100 front derailleur, it will change your life after you watch a few YouTube videos to figure out how the cable routes. IMO, the best mechanical thing that shimaNo has done lately. My road bikes are all still campy, but the Coconino is shimaNo, mostly Ultegra with a 9100 FD because the 8000 was on back order for a while.

Done all that. I have a 5801 front derailleur on one bike. I've followed all the instructional videos closely and it works OK, but it doesn't blow me away. The trim clicks are vague on one end or the other, depending upon cable tension. I have been able to get four distinctive trim clicks on the 9000 (and 5800) long arm derailleur, but not so much on the 5801. They're all there but depending on cable tension, either do too much trim or not enough. It works acceptably, but I don't love it. Trimming on STI has never been their strong suit and I've observed that since working in shops around 1990 when their mountain bike stuff started using push button shifting with trim.

Originally Posted by berserk87

So in asking "what happened to Campy popularity", has it ever been more popular than it is?

It used to be the dominant component brand when I got into cycling in the early 1980s. The others, Shimano, Suntour, Mavic, Simplex, etc. were much smaller. I think Campagnolo still had a relevant part of the premium road market until ten years ago and since then it has been declining. Of the ones mentioned above, only Shimano still exists making components. Suntour is gone and lamented by many. Mavic was smart and went back to their core business, what was always rims and wheels. Simplex? 'Nuf said.

But yes, Campagnolo was, at one time, much more popular than it is now. It was the dominant brand in fact. Every shop worthy of the name had a Campagnolo sticker in the window and a sign that said, "Campagnolo Spoken Here". Their heritage in cycling is rich and long. I very much hope for their survival in the long term.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by cadence90

Why does (VI) do that, and choose to not be more present in the US? Do they think of it as a lost segment of the market, and so not worth more than an extremely minimal investment?

I would be interested to hear gfk_velo's Campagnolo UK position as well.
.

Donno but Valentino(nor did Tullio) never has taken the US market that seriously. I wouldn’t say their investment is ‘minimal’, not sure what that even means...but they are there as a tech/marketing/warranty center. I think they would do well to have a east coast office along with the one in CA or maybe satillite offices around the country but the US market is overwhelmingly serviced by OEM...and the ‘average bike’ sold in the US is well below $1000....neither of which are Campag’s gig....and I don’t think it should be. I don’t think Audi wants to be like Subaru either...or Rolex like Seiko or......

For right above, the ‘Campagnolo Is dying’ once more rears it’s head. They sell everything they make and their sales grow a little each year. 1985 or thereabouts, via the MTB and STI, saw the boom of cycling. Late 80s were tough on Campag(I’ll fated MTB stuff), but 1992/3....their sales have been steady. Add their wheel biz, they are doing just fine but remember they are less than 1/10th the size of shimano...less than 10% of the sales. It’s like comparing Ducati to Yamaha or Suzuki or Kawasaki.

OBTW, I’d rather walk than own a Japanese motorcycle(kidding, don’t get yer panties in a bunch)...

I like to hear gfk_velo on this also but he IS a Campag employee so....I’m a civilian.

[cadence90]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Donno but Valentino(nor did Tullio) never has taken the US market that seriously. I wouldn’t say their investment is ‘minimal’, not sure what that even means...but they are there as a tech/marketing/warranty center. I think they would do well to have a east coast office along with the one in CA or maybe satillite offices around the country but the US market is overwhelmingly serviced by OEM...and the ‘average bike’ sold in the US is well below $1000....neither of which are Campag’s gig....and I don’t think it should be. I don’t think Audi wants to be like Subaru either...or Rolex like Seiko or......

Yes, I should have written "minimal relative to Shimano". I'm sure that you deal with Campagnolo NA much, much more than I do, but almost every time I have called it has been clear (or made clear to me) that they are are under-staffed down there. An EC office at the least would be excellent.

I want to stop by my LBS in the next few days, since it is a Campagnolo ProShop. I'll be curious to see if the C64s there are built with Campagnolo or Shimano.
.

[El Chaba]

Ever since the advent of Shimano SIS back in the mid 1980's, people have been predicting the demise of Campagnolo. They have their niche, and it appears to be strong. What they have definitely failed at is maintaining their market share as the sport has grown. I understand that to remain relevant a component maker has to present at the cutting edge of the market, whatever that is.....I find it a bit unfortunate that this means that Campagnolo has necessarily been sucked into the "change for the sake of change" movement that has come to characterize bike products recently as sales flatten out as participation numbers level and shrink.
Personally, with the exception of some French equipped vintage bikes, I am Campy equipped. Most of my stuff is 9 and 10 speed, with no plans of obtaining anything 11 speed (or higher). I have opined many times that the Campagnolo Record parts (and Chorus) from the 9 speed era were the finest racing bike parts that have ever been produced. the 10 speed are not far behind, with the added advantage of better spare parts availability. On that subject, nobody comes close to the serviceability or spare parts availability of Campagnolo. So it matters not to me that the local shop knows nothing of Campagnolo as I do my own work and source my own parts making them as irrelevant as the Grammy Awards....

[choke]

Originally Posted by berserk87

So in asking "what happened to Campy popularity", has it ever been more popular than it is?

If what the pros use matters....it's been popular for a long time. The first Shimano victory at the TdF was 1999 at which point Campy had 40 victories. It will take a while for anyone to catch up to them.

http://cycling-passion.com/tour-de-f...ets-year-year/

[ultraman6970]

IMO has to do with the italian mentality, campagnolo for years pretty much did the same line up.

If you look silca, they were making the same stuff for centuries till the americans bought them. Probably campagnolo needs to be bought by somebody that thinks differently??

IMO they just dont want to waste time doing a whole plan of marketing , which in the last years developed the biggest flops for campagnolo, remember pt and over over size whatever they came up with? those cranks were sold for pennies and even at those prices nobody wanted due to lack of tools just to start.

I believe some cycling magazine should ask them directly what is going on, why the lack of oem, if its because they dont want to or what, but IMO has to do more with the italian mentality... "we develop by eye, we research by eye and this is what we came up with, if you want to buy it great, if not... doesnt matter, it will sell anyways.. we have to go for wine a cheese now, see you at 5pm..."... world doesnt work like that.

BTW japanese mentality is kind'a worse, the issue is that they give more freedom to the local guy to figure it out how to sell the stuff and since their prices are low, well manufactures will take their stuff more than campagnolo's. For the record... I asure you that japanese is pricing in coparission with campagnolo and is almost certain that they have no idea how much a crankset worth, the do research and develop but in costs? they suck. How do i know? know people from toyota that grab his head all the time due to issues like that... my dad worked for NEC.. you have to compete with other brands and not even the japan main house knew how much a nut costs... sucks. THe good about them is that their thing is to massifiy... italians dont care about it.