E-bikes and a 12-year-old's death

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Whoa, they sued and settled with their daughter's friend's family (who owned the bikes) for $1,500,000.

In the morning the girls made another mess baking cinnamon rolls, and then sat in matching pajamas watching The Little Mermaid. Kaye thought it was cute and snapped a photo with her phone and texted it to Eme’s mom, who’s a friend of hers. She replied that if at some point the girls wanted to ride Eme’s sister’s new electric bike (it was a bat mitzvah gift), they were welcome to walk over and use it. The girls would eventually get dressed and do that, but for a long time they lingered in front of the TV in their pajamas.

Unfortunately, I don't think either parent had any idea what the e-bike actually was. If it was a 50 cc motorcycle, I doubt they would have treated it the same way.

If this thing had been in the garage as a gift, I doubt they'd let the girls ride it without supervision:
https://mototecusa.com/manuals/motot...ike-Manual.pdf

page of the manual for the little dirt bike, "Never operate this if you are under 12!!!!"

[harryschwartzma]

Why are people buying kids Ebikes? Why can’t they pedal on their own power at a time when they may be the most energetic they ever will be? Just softening them up for an SUV?

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by harryschwartzma

Why are people buying kids Ebikes? Why can’t they pedal on their own power at a time when they may be the most energetic they ever will be? Just softening them up for an SUV?

Same reason parents buy those dumb Power Wheels barbie cars for kindergarteners. Marketing.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

My understanding is class 2 e bikes have no age restriction from a legal point of view. The company says in the manual that product is designed for use for people 18 years or older.

I just think discovery will show the company was actively marketing it as fun for teens to commute to school etc. I also think the VC investors will want to settle the case as long as the demands are reasonable to try to salvage the investment.

Lacking knowledge of the organization of the defendants, I suspect that Asahi jurisdiction will become a barrier to collection from the manufacturers of the product. The ebikes appear to be assembled from parts likely to come from many, many suppliers. The only thing that seems 100% touchable is the US distribution company. Which is all that Rad is as far as I can tell. They probably buy product from China and have the items assembled there.

I suspect there is no Rad factory in California or any other part of the country worth zillions of dollars that can be levied against. More likely its some used computers and office desks that have little value. A bunch of employees will lose their jobs. And the defendants steal away in the night.

As far as acting against individual investors, I dunno. Not seeing it now and with very limited information coming only from media reports. Suing a bank that loaned a company money seems a hugh stretch.

[GoJavs]

My wife and I go out for walks late in the afternoon around here - say 6 pm or so. We are generally very attentive. After all, we live in South Florida were anything goes (unleashed big dogs, cars backing out without looking)...

A new wrinkle: the occasional e-bike flying on the sidewalk. We'll see where it all goes, but a 70 lb e-bike hitting someone square at 20-25 mph sounds like a broken femur waiting to happen.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by harryschwartzma

Why are people buying kids Ebikes? Why can’t they pedal on their own power at a time when they may be the most energetic they ever will be? Just softening them up for an SUV?

When your kids see other kids doing something fun they will want to do it too. Parents often give in. Some may have forgotten “if Billy wants to jump off the roof, do you think I should let you do it too?”

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Lacking knowledge of the organization of the defendants, I suspect that Asahi jurisdiction will become a barrier to collection from the manufacturers of the product. The ebikes appear to be assembled from parts likely to come from many, many suppliers. The only thing that seems 100% touchable is the US distribution company. Which is all that Rad is as far as I can tell. They probably buy product from China and have the items assembled there.

I suspect there is no Rad factory in California or any other part of the country worth zillions of dollars that can be levied against. More likely its some used computers and office desks that have little value. A bunch of employees will lose their jobs. And the defendants steal away in the night.

As far as acting against individual investors, I dunno. Not seeing it now and with very limited information coming only from media reports. Suing a bank that loaned a company money seems a hugh stretch.

I was maybe unclear in my writing. You aren't suing the VC investors. The VC Investors have invested $300mm into the company. Since the VC Investors will not want to see the value of their investment go to zero, they will try to find a solution and salvage whatever they can. If they already think the company is worth zero, they will just wash their hands of it.

I doubt Rad Power can do the Texas Two Step defense.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

I was maybe unclear in my writing. You aren't suing the VC investors. The VC Investors have invested $300mm into the company. Since the VC Investors will not want to see the value of their investment go to zero, they will try to find a solution and salvage whatever they can. If they already think the company is worth zero, they will just wash their hands of it.

I doubt Rad Power can do the Texas Two Step defense.

That sounds right.

[zap]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

Quick take: QRs and mechanical discs are a pretty stupid idea for a 70-pound bike that has a throttle and a 750w motor.

One of our tandems has qr skewers and 203 disc rotors. Total team/bike weight is 340ish lbs. We can generate over 1000w but more importantly, we can hit 50mph and then slam on the brakes.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by zap

One of our tandems has qr skewers and 203 disc rotors. Total team/bike weight is 340ish lbs. We can generate over 1000w but more importantly, we can hit 50mph and then slam on the brakes.

Sure, but there are differences...
- Fast tandems are usually piloted by experienced cyclists
- Tandems are usually assembled/maintained by experienced cyclists
- While you can generate a lot of power and speed, you can't do it for miles at a time

An electric bike is much more likely to be assembled/maintained by somebody with little experience. And ridden by people with even less experience, including kids (even if the user manual recommends they don't*).

* A user manual shouldn't be a "get out of jail free" card for manufacturers of potentially dangerous consumer goods.

[NHAero]

I'm still not totally understanding why that article says that multiple experienced users are having to work on the brakes at very short intervals. Either the pads wear incredibly quickly, or the brakes somewhere in the system have something that loosens up and moves the pads less for the movement of the levers. So, on my Big Dummy, either that would be pad wear or cable slippage, or the bolts loosening at the caliper attachment location. None of these seem likely to me to be needing attention on a periodic basis.

[CAAD]

Parents should be experts on bicycle mechanics and safety before purchasing, not after a tragedy. Everyone needs so much hand holding. Soon we will have to sign waivers before purchasing Nutella, that eating too much will make you gain weight.

I feel for the family for losing a child and the child. The parents need to look in the mirror, they are also to blame.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by harryschwartzma

Why are people buying kids Ebikes? Why can’t they pedal on their own power at a time when they may be the most energetic they ever will be? Just softening them up for an SUV?

In the past week I've seen while riding:
- a mom out for a walk and a child maybe 5-6 alongside her "driving" an electric backhoe toy on my road
- two girls maybe 11-12 on what look like mini electric versions of dirt motorcycles, on trails that don't allow motorized vehicles

At the same time we're being asked to medicalize childhood obesity as an epidemic. Maybe a little less corn syrup-infused food and a little more physical exertion?

Clouds, as you were

[zap]

From the lawsuit...edited italics and bold

48.Specifically, Rad designed and manufactured the RadRunner electric-motorized bikes, including the Subject Powerbike, with at least two design defects. First, Rad chose to use disc brakes in conjunction with a quick-release mechanism for detaching the front wheel. This configuration has been a known safety hazard in the industry for at least a decade, even when used with non-electronic bikes. This is because the front disc brakes have calipers behind the fork blade, and when the rider pulls hard at the front brakes, it generates a powerful force and friction that causes the quick-release mechanism to unthread, loosening the wheel and causing it to wobble and shake, and in some cases, causing the wheel to come off entirely mid-ride. Even one hard pull at the brake, especially during a steep downhill ride such as here, is enough to cause these two components to interact with each other in an unsafe way, causing a loss of control, which of course causes injuries and deaths. This is a known safety hazard in the industry, and Rad chose not to use the safer alternative mechanism for releasing the wheel, called a “through axle” mechanism. Through axles are universally used in connection with disc brakes in motorcycles for this reason. However, bicycle manufacturers continue to use these unsafe quick-release mechanisms with front disc brakes in lower-end bicycles, because the quick-release mechanism is cheaper to manufacture than the through-axle mechanism. Rad knew or should have known that this was an unsafe and defective design, but Rad chose to implement it anyway to increase its profits.

49.This design defect - the combination of the quick-release mechanism and the front disc brakes - was a substantial factor in causing this accident and Molly Steinsapir’s death. After the accident, the rear brakes of the Subject Powerbike were worn thin and the front wheel was loose and wobbly. The Subject Powerbike was purchased new approximately a month before the accident. It was assembled by Velofix on January 7, 2021, and therefore had been in the Greens’ possession for just over three weeks on the date of the accident. The brakes were intact, and the wheel was not loose when Emerson and Molly began their ride on January 31, 2021. They rode to the top of the hill on Enchanted Way, riding up a steep incline they only achieved in the first place due to the Subject Powerbike’s powerful motor. On the way down, Emerson tried to control their descent by using the rear brakes, but that only succeeded in wearing the brakes out. As the Subject Powerbike continued to pick up speed, Emerson pulled hard on the front brake, but because of the design defect of the quick-release mechanism used in connection with the front disc brakes, her hard braking caused the quick release mechanism to unthread. The front wheel loosened and became wobbly, the bike began to shake, and Emerson lost control of its steering.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by zap

From the lawsuit...edited italics and bold

The brakes were intact, and the wheel was not loose when Emerson and Molly began their ride on January 31, 2021. They rode to the top of the hill on Enchanted Way, riding up a steep incline they only achieved in the first place due to the Subject Powerbike’s powerful motor. On the way down, Emerson tried to control their descent by using the rear brakes, but that only succeeded in wearing the brakes out. As the Subject Powerbike continued to pick up speed, Emerson pulled hard on the front brake, but because of the design defect of the quick-release mechanism used in connection with the front disc brakes, her hard braking caused the quick release mechanism to unthread. The front wheel loosened and became wobbly, the bike began to shake, and Emerson lost control of its steering.

Using the disc brake caused the QR to unthread and the front wheel to wobble?
That is either not an accurate account of what happened, the QR wasnt actually installed correctly/fully, or the components used arent safe or properly manufactured.
...perhaps a mix of any of the above too.

And we are back to- who knows what happened?