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#16
11-20-2019, 10:02 AM
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I think an EV would work well for my 2 car family, and I fully expect to get one when my current commuting vehicle wears out. We have a mini-van for kid / cargo hauling, road trips, and my wife's short commute. I have a compact car for my 40 mile round-trip commute, which I do about half the time by bike 8 months of the year. The compact car only leaves EV range a handful of times a year, and I could usually swap cars if needed.
Thread drift, but the carbon footprint of a single trans-Pacific flight (which I'm asked to do for work far too often) is about as much as I create in the rest of the year combined. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try to reduce my driving footprint, but certainly the low hanging fruit in my life is convincing my business leaders that we could replace one face-to-face with a video conference or have one less person in the room. It's insane how many people my company flies around. 
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#17
11-20-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
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__________________
Chisholm's Custom Wheels Qui Si Parla Campagnolo
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#18
11-20-2019, 10:30 AM
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#19
11-20-2019, 10:30 AM
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Will the electrical power generation and transportation infrastructure change along with increased EV use?
Good question I think..but I doubt it. Quote:
__________________
Chisholm's Custom Wheels Qui Si Parla Campagnolo
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#20
11-20-2019, 10:38 AM
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And I always take these pronouncements with a gain of salt--predicting the future is always risky
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#21
11-20-2019, 10:50 AM
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I had a 2015 BMW i3 BEV (battery only) for two years and it was an exceptionally good car. Between the dealer discounts, employer incentives, etc., I was paying under $200/mon for the top-line model. I could fit two bike boxes and a wheel box in the back, or a road bike with the wheels on. It was very zippy and overall just an excellent car for the short trips I made 99% of the time when I was still commuting to an office (and wasn't on my bike). I turned it in when the lease ran out, after extending the lease as far as I could, just because I no longer commute to an office, and needed/wanted something with more range for longer trips - plus, a BMW out of warranty and with a first-gen battery (85mi range).....no thanks.
To replace it, I picked up a 2019 Prius Prime this past summer. Again, got a combo of dealer incentives and state/federal incentives to get the price way down for the top-line model with all the gizmos and do-dads. I have 1800mi on it since June, and still haven't filled up the gas tank - sitting at around a 1/4 right now. The all-electric range is enough for most everything I do as far as going for groceries, out to eat, running errands, etc. I'm happy to have the 4-cyl engine though for getting out of town for bike trips, work, whatever - or simply for those rare days where I need more than 25mi and want to run the heater and such. The engine is loud and weak. But it does the job. The infotainment system is excellent, and the design of the car shows care went into the little things. I have a roof-rack for it and between that and the interior space, it hauls plenty for my no-kids lifestyle. We'll see how it does though if we get significant snow this year or ice. That's the one place where these cars struggle in my experience. As for the impacts to the bulk-electric system - yes, there is an impact, but EVs can be part of the solution if the incentives are put in place - they can serve as peak-shifting resources (charging/discharging in concert with the grid's needs). But they can also exacerbate existing problems - if people plug them in at 7p as the sun is setting, that's not good. I expect we'll stumble forward in this space, being the imperfect humans we are.. And as for climate impacts and emissions, well, if you want to make a difference, transportation does matter, but those airline flights make a big deal as others said - and even moreso than that, look at your diet.. There is no bigger contributor to the degradation of our planet than the industrial animal agriculture system. If you want your kids/grandkids to have an inhabitable planet, stop eating meat and drinking milk - or drastically reduce your consumption of it. It's that simple.
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#22
11-20-2019, 10:51 AM
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#23
11-20-2019, 10:54 AM
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Producing renewable energy for the grid cheaply is really not a problem anymore. The IEA and EIA have been consistently underestimating renewable energy production:
https://steinbuch.wordpress.com/2017...energy-agency/ Grid-scale battery development is the major remaining technical challenge w/r/t electricity.
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#24
11-20-2019, 11:02 AM
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IMHO, we need a combination of significant changes on the demand side (time of use, intensity of use, overall reduction in consumption) AND adaptations on the supply side (smart buildout of renewables, better use of existing infrastructure, targeted deployment of storage). We also need to recognize that the last 10-20% of fruit on the electricity-emissions tree are really hard to reach -- whereas there are huge gains to be made in transportation and agriculture (reducing air-travel, imposing standards on trucks/ships, and severely limiting animal agriculture)
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#25
11-20-2019, 11:17 AM
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Old Potatoe, I suggest there's a lot of analysis that's been done that answers most of your concerns.
- EVs have less life cycle impact and emissions even including the battery production and its embodied carbon. It depends on the dirtiness of the grid, and CO is different than where I live in MA for sure. Note how many systems are absent when the gasoline system exits. - Solar and wind and grid connected storage (did anyone see the company planning the ski lift version, with weights?) will on economics replace most fossil generation. Savvy investment managers recognize this (https://www.ft.com/content/dcc26620-...d-ab8ec6435630) Range increases every year. My brother bought a Kia Niro EV this summer and they haven't had any issues at all with range. I had a 2015 Nissan Leaf and it was much much worse. Now we have a Hyundai Ioniq plug-in hybrid, and get 30-40 miles on electric and 52-54 mpg on long trips on gas. Last 12 months has been 1,509 kWh (we have solar so that comes from our roof) and 104 gallons for 11,492 miles. - Yes, air travel is a huge personal impact. So much of it is discretionary. Good place to reduce one's carbon footprint. - Note that natural gas leaks and well head emissions dramatically increase the carbon impact of NG. Measurements in MA show the gas utilities are dramatically under-estimating distribution leaks.
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#26
11-20-2019, 01:54 PM
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This article is almost 2 years old but I thought it was an interesting viewpoint on EVs and the business side of more environmentally "friendly" cars. I happen to have relatives on my wife's side of the family who are about as opposite on the spectrum of personalities as possible and one has a Tesla Model 3 and the other has a Chevy Bolt. I have driven both, I much prefer the Tesla. Both have the unique and fantastic acceleration from instant torque you get with an EV. The Tesla feels like an impressive piece of technology from a company focused on making electric cars while the Bolt feels like a basic economy car that was electrified with seats and seating position that is as bad as I have ever experienced in a car. The Tesla owner has easily gone on 400+ mile trips from New Jersey to Maine because he is organized and enjoys planning a logical itinerary of where charging stations are located along with coffee or lunch stops. He is retired so has time to travel at his own pace and in his words isn't bothered by taking longer stops to recharge because he doesn't want to be in the car for more than 300 miles at a time with out taking a longer break so it gives him time to enjoy a long lunch. The Bolt owner is not organized and is always having to change plans because of not enough battery or convenient charging stations to overcome a lack of planning ahead. One could travel across the country in his EV while the other has trouble getting through the day in her home town of Boston which should be easy to navigate because of the ability to charge at home in her garage combined with the availability of charging stations just about everywhere she goes.
There is only one person who can answer the question of whether or not an EV is a good choice and that is the person buying it. Take a look at how you drive everyday and if that fits within the parameters of what an EV does well or if you can easily make adjustments to lifestyle that will accommodate the benefits of an EV then it is a great choice. If you aren't good at planning or don't change your mindset and try to drive an EV like a "regular" car you might find yourself being frustrated in certain situations, that isn't the fault of the machine but the person using the machine. If you do decide to buy an EV and it is for environmental reasons then I think the next step is to consider some of the points in the article and how the choice you make impacts the environment and market for all cars. https://medium.com/@briankent/the-re...t-c6dc1decf75d
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#27
11-20-2019, 02:16 PM
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Friend of mine recently bought a Cayenne plug-in hybrid. He can drive 20-25 miles without the gas engine ever kicking on, and his around town use allows him to charge at home (from his solar panels), at the supermarket and the mall.
He may go for weeks without the gas engine turning on...but if he takes a road trip, he has no range anxiety. Works well for him. I also have solar panels and generate more juice than I consume, but I'm not quite ready to go electric. My usage is similar to my buddy's, but the cost to get into a plug in hybrid far outweighs the financial return. I'll help save the planet in other ways. 
__________________
Colnagi Seven Sampson Hot Tubes LiteSpeed SpeshFatboy
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#28
11-20-2019, 02:32 PM
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I am hoping I've bought my last gasoline powered car.
My wife and I kind of do stuff separately with respect to cars though, and she did buy a used Lexus earlier this year. Totally not a practical car in any way.. not really big enough for family trips, not really terribly fast, not terribly high performance, not terribly efficient. Just another really nice status symbol type car. Oh well, she got a smoking deal. Both my wife and I have short commutes.. pretty much all the current EVs on the market would be very workable for us. I think a lot of EVs sit there and drain the battery in the garage so I'm sure I'd hook up every night but my driving pattern would indicate I could go several weeks without even having to charge on some of the current cars. About the furthest we drive during the year for trips would be northern VT to the north or NYC area to the south. Seems like most of the current Teslas can easily do all of our trips as long as we can find a place to charge when we get there. I look at EVs as expensive, but they are also fun. My Subaru was just shy of $30k. It is not efficient, it is not fun. It is practical. I'd love to have something fun that didn't make me feel guilty. A Cayman or something would be a lot of fun, but probably suck all winter, and would make me feel guilty from the environmental/efficiency standpoint. A relatively upmodel Tesla 3 would probably be similarly fun and not make me feel guilty at all so from that aspect I would not have an issue with the price. Bottom line for EVs vs gasoline cars is EVs don't spew pollution in a distributed fashion. Getting rid of distributed pollution is a big deal. If someone invents a 50 ton device that can negate carbon exhaust it won't help our gasoline powered cars but it would work great on a Natural Gas power plant. And Solar and Wind improve & grow every day. I kind of want to say I am not that impressed by the plug-ins but they would probably work fine for me too. They are just kludgey.. Hybrids are more complex than normal gasoline/diesel powered cars. Pure EVs are much simpler than either.. I'd rather go with the more modern/elegant/simpler pure EV if I can. No time frame for any of this. My Subaru is 7 years old next month but it only has 80k miles on it.
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#29
11-20-2019, 02:46 PM
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Just recently joined the electric club. Got a 2 y/o BMW i3 (full electric, not the range extender) for the cost of a Honda Civic. Maybe less? I've gotten about 150 miles out a charge.
Super, super happy with the car, the availability of nearby charging (or anywhere in the city - LA). It's perfect for the minimal amount of driving I do (taking kids to school, grocery runs, getting to trails for running, etc.). The car is extremely quality, well designed (BMW used recycled materials in the build), super roomy despite the cars appearance, and is insanely fun to drive. The 0-60 is 7 seconds I think? Fun to rip around. BMW is getting a lot of lease returns so these are quite a bargain. It took a month to find the "right" one because I wanted a CPO, specific features, etc. Worth the wait for sure. Our city also has a bunch of rebates including a used car rebate, level 2 charger rebate, etc. It's a no brainer for me, and you don't cringe when you pass a gas station. One thing to note, insurance will be higher on these as they are super expensive to repair. My insurance went up about $25/m, but that's pretty offset by the cost of gas/typical gas powered maintenance, etc.
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#30
11-20-2019, 03:03 PM
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Do you know how well the all-electric i3 has held up in terms of maintenance costs?
There are claims the Tesla Model S is old enough now to have proven it's long term maintenance costs are extremely low compared to a similar gas car. (About 20% comparing it to a BMW 7-series or similarly large M-B). But most of the other stuff is too new... and BMW gas cars never seem to be inexpensive to maintain. I am talking about way longer than the 3-year period most of the luxury car owners keep stuff like BMWs.. i.e. after the free maintenance and/or warranty has worn off. I have been getting an earful from my Dad about his 3-series lately. He still loves it but he doesn't try to pretend it's reliable or low maintenance. Used i3, Leaf, Bolt, etc.. would all be good cheaper options if I was trying to be cheap.
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