Steel/Ti Bike Advice

[rnr]

I am in the market for a new bike and am considering an "all-road" or "gravel" build to go with my aluminum race bike (Bower Palace:R), which is not exactly a comfort machine. I definitely want a metal frame, and am most concerned about comfort over long days (for me... 4-7hrs of riding), although keeping up on the occasional group ride would be in scope. I plan to use this bike on a mix of ~65% asphalt, 30% dirt roads, 5% true gravel/trail.

I started out this search with a budget of $3000-3500, but am not completely set on that budget... I most importantly want a bike that will make me happy and last a long time.

I have been considering building on these steel frames, 2x with a sub-compact:
- Niner RLT 9 Steel
- Fairlight Secan
- 509 Cycles Necessary Evil
- Crust Bombora (more of a touring bike/not at all a go-fast option, but somehow appealing)

But recently have been feeling a calling toward Ti... For example, I could get a T-Lab X3 GRX build for under $5k. I have no experience with this type of bicycle - would I be buying a significantly improved ride quality/durability for the extra ~$1500 here? How would this compare with similarly priced steel builds, like the Ritte Satyr?

Any advice on how to analyze is appreciated. Anyone have experience with these frames? Are there others I should be considering?

[prototoast]

Titanium won't provide you with an improved ride quality compared to steel as a general matter. Titanium mostly provides durability (dents less easily, doesn't rust, no paint to chip) which many people find desirable, but as far as ride quality, that's not what you're paying for with titanium.

[madsciencenow]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Titanium won't provide you with an improved ride quality compared to steel as a general matter. Titanium mostly provides durability (dents less easily, doesn't rust, no paint to chip) which many people find desirable, but as far as ride quality, that's not what you're paying for with titanium.

^Agree and you might save some weight if that’s a thing you care about.


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[weisan]

I most importantly want a bike that will make me happy and last a long time.

Go custom.

Pick a reputable framebuilder like David Kirk (steel), Seven (Ti).

[DeBike]

I would agree with the above post. I have both steel and titanium bikes and am a fan of both materials for bikes. The pluses for the ti are the durability, and for me, the weight difference. My ti and steel bikes that are the most comparable, both road bikes, have a very similar ride quality with the ti being a bit stiffer. I believe most of that is due to the ovalized shape of the ti tubing. The biggest difference is the weight, with the ti being close to 2.5 lbs. lighter with closely similar setups. Also, the ti bike also has a more racy geometry and makes me want to go fast. IMO, if you think you will and want to be faster, you'll be faster.

The downside to the ti is the increased cost. Not sure how all that relates to a gravel bike, but, it seems to me, the durability is worthy of consideration. Especially if the ti bike is not painted.

Whichever way you decide, with that budget, you should wind up with a fine bicycle that will be really good for gravel and pavement.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Titanium won't provide you with an improved ride quality compared to steel as a general matter. Titanium mostly provides durability (dents less easily, doesn't rust, no paint to chip) which many people find desirable, but as far as ride quality, that's not what you're paying for with titanium.

Agree, And factor in a Powder coated steel frame repair VS a nude Ti frame unless wet painted. If that is a box that needs checking for you.

If you want improved ride quality, concentration on your wheels/tires, more likely to net returns in this dept anyway. Most likely really, once geom is correctly in your window.

My most significant spend in embellishing ride quality was putting tubeless tubular 30mm on XTR CX low profile rim carbon wheels on the 2019 Helix Disc I was not feeling particularly fuzzy about previously.

Not to mention 'ALL Road' by design which tend to fit a huge choice of fatter and 650b wheels/tires has huge potential for ride quality embellishment where the rubber meets the road.

If ride quality is the top box that needs to be checked for what is trying to be attained, consider this point IMO.

[mj_michigan]

My Ti frame is about 1lb lighter than my steel frame (Reynolds 853, I believe) at comparable stiffness. I assume that newer stainless steel would reduce the weight difference, but have no experience with those. The Ti frame appears fairly indestructible -- no need to think about paint chips and rust protection.

[rnr]

Thanks for the replies.

Sounds like a couple pounds weight penalty is the main drawback of steel, which I reckon I can live with.

Regarding custom steel/Ti - This would be great, but as I browse various builder websites, it seems like this would really blow my budget. The examples given (Kirk, Seven) are over 4k for just the frame... wheels, drivetrain, and cockpit would conservatively add another 2k, which I'm not sure I can justify.

Does anyone have any recommendations for steel framesets worth considering in the $1-2k range that can fit ~40c tires?

[Ozz]

get steel....spend the extra $$ on wheels!

[soupless]

People love their Black Mountain Cycles bikes...

[robt57]

Originally Posted by soupless

People love their Black Mountain Cycles bikes...

And similarly AllCity offerings.

But if one of the boxes being checked is bike weight, Ti in particular may get a checked box to abate a little of the added girth of the wheels/brakes etc. Which is piled onto the fatter tires FWIW.

Probably also a place where a carbon fork may check that box certainly.

For your consideration.

[livesadventure]

i'd consider a Desalvo. Excellent craftsmanship and a builder's special in steel is $4500 for a full ultegra build that clears at least a 700x 40c

My steel gravel bike has an excellent ride and is plenty light. I'd suggest you take a look through the custom bike gallery and see what builders interest you and go from there.

[slowpoke]

Black Mountain Road+ seems like it fits OP's needs perfectly (but is sold out because everyone loves them).

If you're fine with stock bikes, go steel and spend the savings elsewhere.

[JasonF]

I was blown away that the weight difference between my Seven Axiom SL (carbon fork) was only about 1.25lbs from my Kirk (steel frame, steel fork, steel steerer)...when you add water, rider weight, etc...the difference is negligible at best...in my case it was less than 1%.

[arimajol]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Titanium won't provide you with an improved ride quality compared to steel as a general matter. Titanium mostly provides durability (dents less easily, doesn't rust, no paint to chip) which many people find desirable, but as far as ride quality, that's not what you're paying for with titanium.

This is so interesting, and valuable real world perspective folks seem to be agreeing with. Compare this to this quote on titanium from Honey:
"Smoothest ride. Takes the edge of rough roads and trails better than any other material -- including steel. Steel is a close second to titanium but cannot match titanium. Aluminum is harsh. Carbon has to be stiff/harsh in order to not come apart."

Do people rave about ti's ride when they come to it from Al and carbon, but are lukewarm on it coming from steel? As a rider of steel contemplating a ti future, i want more perspectives on this.