16-year-old driver who killed cyclist was speeding & using social media

[makoti]

Originally Posted by b33

The answer is tech and it's fairly simple.

Bingo.

[flying]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I think there’s a deeper conversation to be had on the topic of risk/reward as it pertains to road riding. But perhaps beyond the purview of this thread.

I don't think so if one considers your roughly 40 times more likely to die in a car

If I look at the average deaths per year for both & yes I use both

But at some point,,, life is for the living & it never comes without risk

But yes,,,, when the ignorance of others causes needless deaths it is just infuriating
The penalty should be beyond the beyond in severity


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclis...n_U.S._by_year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_...n_U.S._by_year

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by flying

I don't think so if one considers your roughly 40 times more likely to die in a car

If I look at the average deaths per year for both & yes I use both

But at some point,,, life is for the living & it never comes without risk

But yes,,,, when the ignorance of others causes needless deaths it is just infuriating
The penalty should be beyond the beyond in severity


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclis...n_U.S._by_year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_...n_U.S._by_year

I try to keep this in mind too - but recency/primacy effects can often override the cold, hard, actuarial truth..

[azrider]

Originally Posted by donalrey

Thank you for sharing this. That was a beautiful tribute. I lost my brother, Gerrard, last year - he was one of the 5 cyclists that was killed in Las Vegas. I miss him everyday and I still can't believe that we won't be able to ride together again. I will keep on riding...that's what he would have wanted.

So sorry for your loss. That was a horrific thing that happened. I hope that guy never sees the light of day again.

Originally Posted by rallizes

Speaking of Oregon, easily the worst experience I had on a bike with hostile drivers was in Lincoln City. Also, coincidentally or not, the only place I have seen a swastika tattoo on a person in the flesh. A female no less.

Oregon is one of the most contrasting places I've ever been to. I have family in Black Butte that we visit a lot which is beautiful and maybe somewhat affluent, but 5 minutes down the road it's pickup trucks with gun racks and confederate flags and "like to fight" dudes who don't take kindly to guys in spandex going for a bike ride. Sad.

Originally Posted by M_D_S

This is exactly how my best friend, Robin Ames, was killed while riding last year. Struck from behind by a distracted driver using her phone. He had a varia, it was daytime, and it was a straight stretch of road. None of it mattered.

https://www.outsideonline.com/241983...ath-obituaries

So sorry for your loss. What a beautiful tribute to your friend. That was tough to read without getting teary eyed.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by flying

I don't think so if one considers your roughly 40 times more likely to die in a car

If I look at the average deaths per year for both & yes I use both

But at some point,,, life is for the living & it never comes without risk

But yes,,,, when the ignorance of others causes needless deaths it is just infuriating
The penalty should be beyond the beyond in severity


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclis...n_U.S._by_year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_...n_U.S._by_year

I think you are missinterpeting the statistics here considering there are way more ppl travelling in a car than on a bike at a given time in the US. So once you have chosen to be one of those on a bike your risk are way bigger than in the statistical reference no? How big i dunno. Guess one would have to compare how much time per year and person is spent in a car vs on a bike.

[prototoast]

It's rough, but eliminating distractions is impossible. The one and only car collision I was responsible for happened when I was about 20 years old. I rear ended the car in front of me because I became momentarily distracted trying to read one of those light up road signs. Thankfully, I was going < 5 mph, so there were no injuries or property damage, but I was distracted by something the public works department deliberately put up to get my attention.

So yes, we should clearly work to minimize distractions, but we should also work to make distractions less dangerous. This should principally involve making cars smaller and slower, and better-designed roadways.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by prototoast

It's rough, but eliminating distractions is impossible. The one and only car collision I was responsible for happened when I was about 20 years old. I rear ended the car in front of me because I became momentarily distracted trying to read one of those light up road signs. Thankfully, I was going < 5 mph, so there were no injuries or property damage, but I was distracted by something the public works department deliberately put up to get my attention.

So yes, we should clearly work to minimize distractions, but we should also work to make distractions less dangerous. This should principally involve making cars smaller and slower, and better-designed roadways.

This is a half-assed solution. The only solution - and it’s a long way off - is to ameliorate the hegemony cars have over everyday life. I remember at the beginning of the Pandemic, when most people were in full lockdown mode, how calm and quiet it was. There was absolutely never a better time to be a road cyclist. The reason, of course, it was that there were hardly any cars.

Cars are an auditory and aesthetic blight. I really look forward to the day when our society is designed around pedestrians and bicycles. I hope it happens in my lifetime.

[J.Higgins]

As mentioned before, we are on the cusp of self-piloting automobiles. Since we still have 100 year-old vehicles on the road, albeit very few in number, I don't see manual-driving cars going away in our lifetime. I DO see in my crystal ball a future full of electric vehicles. Electric, petrol, or hydrogen-powered, they'll all run you over just as dead unless we have better safety measures for our crowded roads. Will we reach a time when public transportation and private conveyances will be safe for all? Maybe here and in Europe, but surely not in impoverished countries. Its a big Folger's can full of worms, and its not going to get better, and there's no one answer for all of it. Unless...

Hey! I know!

We can get rid of all of the motor vehicles! Yeah right. Never happen.

This reminds me of a story. Read on if you are bored...

I was a machinist for a printing company. The director was a real nutjob. I used to call him The Snapper, because he'd snap. You could see it happening. One minute he'd be just calm and fine and all is well, and then the next minute he's be in a red-faced rage. Oh, he definitely had some issues which drugs - if he took them - definitely didn't help.

One of the printers was this little Portugese feller. He ate fruit all the time. Bananas, apples, plums, pears, and sometimes he'd bring in a pineapple and slice it up on his bench and eat it while his press was set up and running. He threw all of his apple cores and banana peels and other fruit waste into his trash, which he was lazy about emptying. This obviously created problems with smell and an abundance of fruit flies.

One day the boss walked down the row between the presses and sucked a fruit fly into his mouth and gagged and coughed. HE grabbed the maintenance guy and made him round up EVERY trash can in the building and throw them in the compactor. That took care of the problem, didnt it? No more trash cans, no more reason to have fruit flies buzzing around. Instead of dealing with one lazy little peckerhead who wouldnt empty his trash every day, now everyone suffered.

We all just stood around scratching our heads on that one.

So I guess I'm just saying that there is no magic wand for any of this autos vs cyclists problem. In a fight between the car and the bike, the bike will always lose, not only in a physical match, but also in income generated for billions of people who rely on cars for transportation. Coexisting peacefully is the only way around it, and it needs to be taught in schools and in public service announcements on tv. We need to remove the dumbass designer drug commercials from primetime television and replace them with reminders of road rules and safety.

[flying]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

I think you are missinterpeting the statistics here considering there are way more ppl travelling in a car than on a bike at a given time in the US.

Yes true in a sense but I do use both so what I am saying is there is always risk from these two forms of transport in my life

[flying]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

I try to keep this in mind too - but recency/primacy effects can often override the cold, hard, actuarial truth..

Yes I know what you mean & this past year I have had some zingers with tractor trailers .....I mean made me really think about how close that was.

One company had buzzed me more than once a big trucking outfit here
with a recognizable colored cab...So after the last incident I called the company when I got home.

Spoke to the owner & said today your driver almost gave up part of your company, part of his future earnings & hopefully years of his freedom due to his negligence. Also to make matter worse the oncoming opposite lane had no cars so he could have easily moved left rather than nearly clip me. So I am assuming he is looking elsewhere perhaps his phone?

Given he is supposedly a professional driver representing your company I think you should warn him as I do not usually call companies of bad drivers but your trucks...perhaps this same driver has nearly clipped me more than once.

I then gave time & location so owner will know exactly which driver.
I have not had a problem since with that company & hope it continues

[glepore]

Originally Posted by flying

Yes I know what you mean & this past year I have had some zingers with tractor trailers .....I mean made me really think about how close that was.

One company had buzzed me more than once a big trucking outfit here
with a recognizable colored cab...So after the last incident I called the company when I got home.

Spoke to the owner & said today your driver almost gave up part of your company, part of his future earnings & hopefully years of his freedom due to his negligence. Also to make matter worse the oncoming opposite lane had no cars so he could have easily moved left rather than nearly clip me. So I am assuming he is looking elsewhere perhaps his phone?

Given he is supposedly a professional driver representing your company I think you should warn him as I do not usually call companies of bad drivers but your trucks...perhaps this same driver has nearly clipped me more than once.

I then gave time & location so owner will know exactly which driver.
I have not had a problem since with that company & hope it continues

Yes, great in theory, but its like yelling at a motorist. The next time he sees you he might murder you out of annoyance.

[flying]

Originally Posted by glepore

Yes, great in theory, but its like yelling at a motorist. The next time he sees you he might murder you out of annoyance.

Hahah yes great in "theory" I guess your same line of "out of annoyance" thinking says I "could" position myself with a sniper rifle on a hill & wait for that truck

Thankfully I guess I am not that annoyed

But instead hopeful that calling the owner of that trucking company as I did makes/made a difference

[Tandem Rider]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Just the usual routes N/NW/NE and E of town - close in, and up to Sisters, Terrebonne, Redmond, etc. Maybe I'm unlucky? Like I said, it isn't everyone - just enough select someones that pretty much every ride has some form of aggravating or unnerving close call. N/NW of town has gotten worse over the last few months because of construction and all the work Knife River, et al., is doing - just way more huge trucks (heavy commercial trucks and brodozers) on the road that seem to be in a god-awful hurry.

I'm hoping to ride a car-free McKenzie this weekend - and heard portions of the Cascade Lakes HWY is closed to cars but open to bikes right now? Driving to ride is general against my instinct but it seems I have to start making some exceptions.

I can't give up and give in to Zwifting. I didn't move to the sunny side of the state to spend my time indoors. I'd rather run, hike, or MTB - and have been dabbling in all three. I also spend a couple/few rides a week doing hill repeats and up n' backs on safe roads close to home (around Awbrey and up Skyliners, around Tetherow and Tree Farm, etc.). I find that heaps more enjoyable than plugging in to the matrix - but to each their own.

I agree 100% on the staying outside, I haven't been on a trainer since I quit racing and I'm not starting up again. I pretty much only get to ride on weekends with my job situation right now so I usually head SE or hit the gravels or MTB. Do you have a gravel or MTB? Dirty Freehub has a bunch of routes local to us, I ridden parts of a few. The trails are great here. I even tried some fat biking this winter on the meager snow we had. Plenty of ways to avoid the construction traffic, although Phils has a bunch of work going on right now too.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by J.Higgins

As mentioned before, .... We need to remove the dumbass designer drug commercials from primetime television and replace them with reminders of road rules and safety.

Great story. And your observations are so true.

There is not a single cause, nor is there a single answer. But surely the solution with the greatest impact would be for people to take their driving responsibilities seriously and modify their phone habits accordingly.

Won't happen, because people are essentially selfish creatures.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by flying

I don't think so if one considers your roughly 40 times more likely to die in a car

If I look at the average deaths per year for both & yes I use both

But at some point,,, life is for the living & it never comes without risk

But yes,,,, when the ignorance of others causes needless deaths it is just infuriating
The penalty should be beyond the beyond in severity


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclis...n_U.S._by_year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_...n_U.S._by_year

Agree and w/o flying the 'BTDT' flag, you can 'what if' yourself into or out of anything. I saw first hand a gent that turned his wings in after seeing a aircrew he knew die on the CV. Barricade failed, they went into the water and died. They cleaned up the flight deck..and after about 2 hours, called away the man-up for another launch..WHAT??(I was a first tour nugget)..I asked my really salty RIO, 'how can we fly?"..But we did....and the other young gent went to the CO and said, 'no more for me'..

I have been hit from behind while riding but...like the other poster..risk vs reward. I ride in safe places, at safe times..I ride VERY defensively and like flying in general..'somebody is trying to kill you'..so ride..and fly, appropriately.

Cars are an auditory and aesthetic blight. I really look forward to the day when our society is designed around pedestrians and bicycles. I hope it happens in my lifetime.

Well, the US has been 'car' and 'truck' centric for how many decades? 7? And the very fabric of this great big country is interwoven with the car and truck. From 'bedroom' communities to even rural places where towns are many miles apart. It would be great if communities were 'designed' around peds and bikes...but even now, VERY few and far between. Even in VERY progressive communities like the people's republic. STILL car-centric.

Like I said, gotta force people into this way or that. One way is to make energy scarce..not expensive, that has little effect'. But when fuel or even electricity is scarce, people will change..And that change will be slow or catastrophic..and if the later, you'll need more than just gas..but food, ammunition, medicine, water, shelter..just look what a wee hiccup did to the east coast with the pipeline gig..