Maker quirks

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by girlscantell

I'd LOVE a Ghibli!

Yeah, me too!

[reuben]

Originally Posted by soulspinner

Got passed by a few of these in my day.

In a few months you'll have the opportunity to pass one.

I'm not the skinny young triathlete I used to be. Time marches on.

[girlscantell]

I love CIOCCS. When I worked at a shop in my youth, I always had plans to get a San Cristobal but could never save enough. Great bike. Post photos when you get it!

[bicycletricycle]

All Italian bikes have crap paint, especially if the bikes have some chrome on them.

[Latestart]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

Yeah, me too!

https://villaveloframes.wordpress.co...rossin-ghibli/


Rossin.jpeg

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by Latestart

https://villaveloframes.wordpress.co...rossin-ghibli/


Attachment 1698024770

I love Rossin's also and that's a wonderful frame, own two Rossin's myself, however not a fan of that paint or chrome decal work at all.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by girlscantell

So I'm in the market for an old road bike. I'm learning about fit and parts and all that by reading your posts. The other day someone on this forum or another commented on a bike something to the effect of "That's a great builder and a lot more consistent than Viners."

Are Viners inconsistent in their frame builds?

What are the quirks are good to know about the various bike manufacturers out there?

Anything I should know about Rossin? Ciocc? Wilier? Things to watch out for or prize?

EVERY Euro frame maker had their 'quirks', back in the day when they were making a bunch of them. US market, Euro market, Japan market..they all could vary some. Merckx, for example..even w/i a model, brake bridges, seat stay caps, forks, they could vary a lot.

Tubeset..need to try to find the 'test' conducted by Bill McGann of Torelli....a quiver of identical size frames, unmarked as to tubeset..then ridden and tested and passed around..and then 'evaluated'. Wasn't the Cromor frame considered the 'best' ride?

There were a LOT of 'second' tier' Euro frames made..One small step below Derosa/Merckx/Pinarello/Colnago..every bit as good, just not the US distribution that made them as available as the above.
Ciocc, Viner, Willier, Decordi, Scapin, Rossin, etc, many others.

I think you look for the things you would look for in any frame. Alignment, cracks, dents and RUST. Paint is almost a 'consumable'..you can paint and decal any frame.

I have a Ciocc/SL I bought in 1985 and it is one of the 3 best riding frames I have ever owned(Mondonico and Merckx MXLeader being the other 2).

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

All Italian bikes have crap paint, especially if the bikes have some chrome on them.

This is why you had to get a new bike every 2 years.

TSD had Guerciotti frames repainted. A lot of them still look pretty good.

A lot of European bikes were built under contract. The Rauler thread/history says that Viner had delivery problems with one builder so they gave the contract to Rauler. So I wonder if this is where the talk of inconsistency came from

[soulspinner]

Originally Posted by reuben

In a few months you'll have the opportunity to pass one.

I'm not the skinny young triathlete I used to be. Time marches on.

Yeah 7000 mile years and 17 pounds less was 3 decades ago.

[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Tubeset..need to try to find the 'test' conducted by Bill McGann of Torelli....a quiver of identical size frames, unmarked as to tubeset..then ridden and tested and passed around..and then 'evaluated'. Wasn't the Cromor frame considered the 'best' ride?

Do you mean this Bicycle Guide article?

https://www.habcycles.com/m7.html

[Tandem Rider]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

This is why you had to get a new bike every 2 years.

TSD had Guerciotti frames repainted. A lot of them still look pretty good.

TSD was importing Billato framesets unpainted and painting them here (Florida if I recall correctly). They were selling Guerciotti, Tommaso, Rossin, and LeMond that I can recall, and there may have been more. All were made by Billato and shipped unfinished. The shop I raced for sold Tommaso and LeMond. These had the nicest and most durable paint of any 80s Italian I ever saw.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by Tandem Rider

These had the nicest and most durable paint of any 80s Italian I ever saw.

My viner had paint that had the durability of chiclets chewing gum. It was light blue with a subtle pearl effect. A lot of Italian paint jobs back then were pretty, but broke off in chunks. Cromovelato probably was the height of this. It's not uncommon to find those bikes totally stripped of paint. But it's still being offered because it looks so good.

One of the bike painters I follow on youtube (not Italian) recently made a video of spraying chromovelato. Which surprised me, it's like a temporary coating. Maybe it has gotten better over the years.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Tandem Rider

TSD was importing Billato framesets unpainted and painting them here (Florida if I recall correctly). They were selling Guerciotti, Tommaso, Rossin, and LeMond that I can recall, and there may have been more. All were made by Billato and shipped unfinished. The shop I raced for sold Tommaso and LeMond. These had the nicest and most durable paint of any 80s Italian I ever saw.

I am surprised to see Rosin on that list. He was a real builder and his company made everything in house. He apprenticed under Colnago before heading out on his own.

[homagesilkhope]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

I am surprised to see Rosin on that list. He was a real builder and his company made everything in house. He apprenticed under Colnago before heading out on his own.

In a discussion of this very topic some years ago, Dale Brown - always careful about this sort of thing (and pretty everything else, for that matter) - specifically excluded Rossin from the Italian brands sold and painted in the USA by TSD. His understanding was that the TSD Rossins were Rossins through and through. Also, the mark was sold off a couple of times following Marco Rossin's death in the early 90s, and neither the product nor reputation of the brand was ever the same again.