Jan Heine on wide tires for the road

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by charliedid

I'm not 100% convinced but it crossed my mind. Context.

I mean really - "Like in the 80’s with mountain bikes. No one needs that!"

Maybe he meant in the 80s people started showing up to brevets on mountain bikes as they gained popularity? Perhaps I am being too charitable, but given I believe he is a non-native English speaker, being quoted briefly by a third party, I don't want to be too hard on him.

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Came across this quote in a great writeup of the Concourse des Machines on the Radavist. Olivier is a builder in the legendary French shop Alex Singer. I found it funny considering the Francophile nature of JH.

Olivier contorted his features in a toss up between outright rage and confusion: “Gravel is just marketing. Big companies making marketing! Like in the 80’s with mountain bikes. No one needs that! First they make the frames stiffer and stiffer, so no one wants to ride them because they’re uncomfortable, so you need big tyres which are slow. The forks don’t flex properly because they’re too stiff. I’ve had my bike for over 20 years, and I can say now it’s perfect. Some parts have changed but the frame is the same and it’s perfect. I can do anything I need on it.”


The whole report is well worth the read! https://theradavist.com/2022-concour...race-and-show/

David

Well, I have some pretty recent experience with Olivier as I got him to build me a bike last year. I obsess over details, but with this bike I gave Olivier the basics and Olivier took it from there with excellent results. The time perspective at Alex Singer is different from what you experience elsewhere. Bikes aren’t built because of what a major component manufacturer released last year but with a much longer term view.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Came across this quote in a great writeup of the Concourse des Machines on the Radavist. Olivier is a builder in the legendary French shop Alex Singer. I found it funny considering the Francophile nature of JH.

The French fell out of demi-balloon tires as the roads got better. Whenever Heine visited with the participants from prior CdM, or long-term Herse owners, almost inevitably they had kept up with times and were riding carbon fiber and lightweight narrow tires. I don't think anyone stayed frozen in time, riders wanted the cutting edge, which is always moving forward. By the mid-1950s that was no longer classic randonneuring bikes as we know them today. We are lucky to have the ability to experience these great bikes from that time, but pretending there haven't been any advancements in 60+ years is a bit much.

Originally Posted by From a PBP 2019 Ride Report

The romantic 650b look is really at this point an American phenomena, and is totally absent in Europe as far as I can tell. As Ludovic clarified, the French throw the 650b wheels in the trash.

Specifically 650b road is a Pacific Northwest affectation, largely absent elsewhere.

[NHAero]

I generalized too much, as I thought this thread was primarily about tires and the relationship of width and speed, acknowledging that width usually adds comfort (compliance). You're absolutely correct that frames in torsion deflect far more than frames in a strictly vertical plane.

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Much work has been done in the intervening 50 years. Frame stiffness does not exist solely in the vertical plane, and absolutely matters to ride feel - separate from the fork and tires.

Frame stiffness is less understood than tire rolling resistance...

[NHAero]

I like the 650B version of my Bingham because of toe clearance for the same size tire, vs. 700C. It's a non-issue for paved road riding but not so in off-road conditions, especially low speed uphills with not great traction conditions.

I may need to move to the PNW...

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

The French fell out of demi-balloon tires as the roads got better. Whenever Heine visited with the participants from prior CdM, or long-term Herse owners, almost inevitably they had kept up with times and were riding carbon fiber and lightweight narrow tires. I don't think anyone stayed frozen in time, riders wanted the cutting edge, which is always moving forward. By the mid-1950s that was no longer classic randonneuring bikes as we know them today. We are lucky to have the ability to experience these great bikes from that time, but pretending there haven't been any advancements in 60+ years is a bit much.



Specifically 650b road is a Pacific Northwest affectation, largely absent elsewhere.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Maybe he meant in the 80s people started showing up to brevets on mountain bikes as they gained popularity? Perhaps I am being too charitable, but given I believe he is a non-native English speaker, being quoted briefly by a third party, I don't want to be too hard on him.

My tongue was at least half in my cheek.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by charliedid

My tongue was at least half in my cheek.

Maybe I'm trying to convince myself more than I'm trying to convince you.

[RWL2222]

…

[RWL2222]

…

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Maybe I'm trying to convince myself more than I'm trying to convince you.

Some days it goes like that.

[tomato coupe]

Toe straps but no toe clips?

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Toe straps but no toe clips?

Tracking racing thing

[AngryScientist]

Deerfield is this weekend. I wonder if the spirit of gravel will be there?

[Hilltopwalters]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Deerfield is this weekend. I wonder if the spirit of gravel will be there?

hahaa, I imagine Don Draper whenever someone says "Spirit of Gravel".

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Deerfield is this weekend. I wonder if the spirit of gravel will be there?

No prize money means no one will think twice about it. But, give a free hat to the winner and ...