women / girls on bikes getting sore

[eddief]

topic was broached during group regroup today before we climbed the Marshall Wall. So much easier to bullsh*t and eat than to climb the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnO_5H2n70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4mYKA81QM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1epWR0_YSQ

[Clancy]

Women cyclist staying silent about pain because it’s a part of the female body that men find uncomfortable to talk about.

Women cyclist having surgery because the cycling industry, controlled by men, hasn’t bothered to research and develop proper saddles for women.

Is there any part of life where men haven’t completely ignored or dismissed women’s needs?

Women having surgery - that just shocks me.

Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention. Obviously we need to talk about it openly.

[eddief]

on video tape so can we!

[bcroslin]

This is a subject that I realized I have a HUGE blindspot due to being a dude. I had no idea (read: never had to think about it) that women's relationship with their saddle is radically different than mine. It took a long conversation with a fitter for the lightbulb to turn on and then I felt incredibly dumb.

I ride with a few strong women and they can suffer like no one else. Us guys are moaning and groaning about the heat, the attack Joe made that killed us all, legs cramping, etc and the women just keep their heads down and grind it out.

[prototoast]

Do most guys not also deal with saddle discomfort? I thought that was a universal challenge all cyclists struggle with. I must be doing something wrong.

[redir]

You guys have never had numb pecker syndrome before?

Gotta remember to stand once in a while on those long flat rides into the headwind.

This being a saddle thread basically I'll offer what I think is the best advice based on my own experience and that of many others, there is no magic saddle. You have to find the one that works for you and then buy ten of them so that you have back ups for the rest of your life!

[charliedid]

Great stuff.

Guys it's not about you, and of course men have similar issues.

It's about an industry reacting to the needs and finding solutions for women who suffer. It's not JUST marketing.....(bikes painted girly with flowers and supposedly gender correct color-ways.)

And MORE importantly it's about training an industry dominated by men (some are just mere boys) to be able to respectfully and maturely have this conversation when it comes up in a retail scenario. Real solutions for real problems.

Thankfully I've always worked in professional shops and have never been uncomfortable discussing the issue with woman when selling or fitting a bike, but I can guarantee you that many men do not have any idea how to manage the process or subject and that just alienates woman who already feel like many bike shops are just smelly dude clubhouses.

It's a shame but sometimes a little humor goes a long way when trying open eyes and educate. Kudos to Specialized for that piece.

[C50]

I would not agree that women have stayed silent on the topic of saddle issues. In fact it was a push from women through the Women's Commission that helped begin the process of addressing existing UCI saddle regulations at the time with saddle tilt/angle being the focus to address health concerns. I know this because I was very involved in that process and I authored a proposal that was voted on and accepted by saddle companies who are members of the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry and recommended to the UCI which then adopted 2 of the 3 recommended changes and are now the existing regulations. So women have a voice and a powerful one at which has been used resulting in benefits for everyone. Also, one of the most powerful people in the industry started and owns the company that manufactures a significant number of saddles (branded mostly for other companies) that are put on bikes each year is a woman and no man in the industry who knows anything would risk dismissing her! But, I would agree that more women riding and becoming part of the industry is a good thing.

Since most men and women are not obligated to follow UCI regulations why does it matter? There are a lot of issues involved like any complex situation from the economics of the industry, design and testing regulations (EN and ISO standards) to technical/fit needs and even just tradition and what people are used too. I think saddles have gotten a significant amount of research over the last 20+ years first for men but also for women but one of the problems that arises is viewing saddles (or bikes) as built for men or for women. A large number of men would be better served on a saddle marketed as a women's model just as some women are optimally matched to what is considered a men's saddle. Ultimately, you have to treat the individual cyclist (male or female) and get everything right in the equation to achieve the optimal experience and that includes saddle dimension, padding level, style of riding, correct placement in the context of a correct fit, time for the body to adapt and just plane old personal preferences by the rider. Are there too many models available today? That depends on whether or not you have found the saddle that works for you? Once you have what you like do the other thousands of models available matter, probably not for you but those other models allow other riders to find what works best for them and how they like to ride. With that said, I do this for a living and still find it impossible to know every model and the near constant changes made to models by some companies.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by C50

I would not agree that women have stayed silent on the topic of saddle issues. In fact it was a push from women through the Women's Commission that helped begin the process of addressing existing UCI saddle regulations at the time with saddle tilt/angle being the focus to address health concerns. I know this because I was very involved in that process and I authored a proposal that was voted on and accepted by saddle companies who are members of the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry and recommended to the UCI which then adopted 2 of the 3 recommended changes and are now the existing regulations. So women have a voice and a powerful one at which has been used resulting in benefits for everyone. Also, one of the most powerful people in the industry started and owns the company that manufactures a significant number of saddles (branded mostly for other companies) that are put on bikes each year is a woman and no man in the industry who knows anything would risk dismissing her! But, I would agree that more women riding and becoming part of the industry is a good thing.

Since most men and women are not obligated to follow UCI regulations why does it matter? There are a lot of issues involved like any complex situation from the economics of the industry, design and testing regulations (EN and ISO standards) to technical/fit needs and even just tradition and what people are used too. I think saddles have gotten a significant amount of research over the last 20+ years first for men but also for women but one of the problems that arises is viewing saddles (or bikes) as built for men or for women. A large number of men would be better served on a saddle marketed as a women's model just as some women are optimally matched to what is considered a men's saddle. Ultimately, you have to treat the individual cyclist (male or female) and get everything right in the equation to achieve the optimal experience and that includes saddle dimension, padding level, style of riding, correct placement in the context of a correct fit, time for the body to adapt and just plane old personal preferences by the rider. Are there too many models available today? That depends on whether or not you have found the saddle that works for you? Once you have what you like do the other thousands of models available matter, probably not for you but those other models allow other riders to find what works best for them and how they like to ride. With that said, I do this for a living and still find it impossible to know every model and the near constant changes made to models by some companies.

Excellent points and insight. That brings up a great point that effects retailers and sales people. You can't have everything so you hope you can make what you have or what you can get work for the largest # of people. Extended test rides and 30 day guarantees from manufacturers have certainly helped in what can be at times an impossible task for some retailers and their customers.

[AngryScientist]

no one should have to suffer with an ill fitting saddle, and it should not be an embarrassing topic for anyone to discuss, male or female.

one problem i see that sales people will have, with either men or women is that you need to be able to determine the experience level of the cyclist to help them understand saddle fit issues.

for example, a very new cyclist who buys their first road bike is going to find a racing type saddle uncomfortable, no matter what. you need to be able to separate those who just need more time to acclimatize to any bike saddle from those who are having legitimate fit issues that lead to numbness and real pain/discomfort. that;s step A.

the other salient point i think is that in 2019, when anyone (man/woman) is having a problem that is even a little embarrassing to talk about the obvious first thing to do is google it!

if you google saddle fit issues, or saddle numbness a TON of information pops up, and someone who was initially embarrassed to discuss this should quickly realize it's not a trivial or uncommon issue, but one shared by many cyclists, and it's OK to talk about and seek advice for, whether behind the anonymity of the internet or at a bike shop, or local club or whatever.

[eddief]

the research part of the story even for the non-squeamish is challenging to imagine...doing.

[bcroslin]

Originally Posted by redir

You guys have never had numb pecker syndrome before?

It's not a numbness issue. It's a stimulation until you can't see straight issue. Very uncomfortable and thus the reason why some women resort to surgery.

[HenryA]

Smells and looks like marketing to me.

>>>>>>>>>ITS MARKETING<<<<<<<<<<

Everyone has parts that might get mashed, its not some special women's problem.

[Yoshi]

I always thought that finding the right saddle was part of the journey.
One persons “disappears beneath you” is another persons ass hatchet.
Regina Terry has been making women’s specific saddles for decades.
I ride with a few women including my wife that are quite happy with theirs.
I got hipped to Fabric saddles by a woman at my LBS who runs them on all her bikes and loves them.
Just sayin’

[jay023]

I don't think this is just marketing. We all have challenges finding the right saddle, but a difference in anatomy has to be taken account of in the choices.

I tried a slew of different saddles and adjustments on my wife's bike. Finally settled on a Specialized Power saddle. It was the best of the bunch, but still she was never pain free. Switched over to the mimic version of that same saddle. Installed in the exact same position. Night and day difference for her.