OT: CA Gov. Newsom bans sale of gas powered cars in 2035.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by eBAUMANN

It amazes me how many otherwise-eco-conscious people (my parents, for example) have no clue where their household electricity comes from...or that its even possible to CHOOSE where it comes from.

If you arent getting your power from wind/solar that tesla isnt doing sh*t to improve the situation.

Also, I would sincerely hope that by 2035 we have something TRULY sustainable figured out...im no expert but i feel like the long-term environmental impact of today's electric vehicles is still a pretty big question mark.

That's not exactly true. A battery that can charge during appropriate times of the day adds some resiliency to the power grid - especially if combined with a household system that can reduce its demand during certain periods.

Also, your parents can't choose where their power comes from - it's one interconnected system - but they can choose to support investment in cleaner [sic] technologies, and can also reduce the burden they place on the grid by not using as much power during the evening peak hours (typically 3p-8p).

[Clean39T]

Greening the transportation sector is an important step.

But it would be much more effective to simply tax animal products until they are no longer eaten in the quantities they are today.

https://wearetheweatherbook.com/

There is no solution to climate change, clean air, or clean water that is as effective as reducing or eliminating one's consumption of animal products. Full stop.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Greening the transportation sector is an important step.

But it would be much more effective to simply tax animal products until they are no longer eaten in the quantities they are today.

https://wearetheweatherbook.com/

There is no solution to climate change, clean air, or clean water that is as effective as reducing or eliminating one's consumption of animal products. Full stop.

I know that’s certainly a factor. According to this chart (from the EPA) agriculture is considerably less than transportation and electricity. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sou...-gas-emissions

I’d be interested to see statistics showing otherwise. What certainly is a factor is that the car has extended the exurbs into areas that are increasingly problematic.

[pasadena]

I want our country to be rich in resources for future generations, not a failed experiment in political correctness.

"It's not my problem" is what destroys our national forests and put us in this hole.

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

Perhaps it won't be your problem. Do you plan to live much past 2035?

[Clean39T]

I applaud Governor Newsom's bold initiative and the care it shows for his constituents. I hope though that the California Public Utilities Commission, California Energy Commission, California Air Resources Board, and California Independent System Operator are all up to the task of implementing the associated policies and rules that will be necessary to carry this out without having rolling blackouts be part of our already adventurous summers out west. We can not get to scale with EVs without changing how and when we use power - and that is going to take innovation, cooperation, and coordination across many sectors, and across the Western States (California can't do this alone). I could go on, but I'll just point folks to a very comprehensive study on all this: https://www.ethree.com/wp-content/up...2018-012-1.pdf. Or for a slightly more easily digestible version on similar themes: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/for...-in-so/569279/.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

What certainly is a factor is that the car has extended the exurbs into areas that are increasingly problematic.

Yeah, they're ruining all the good road riding!

[pasadena]

Agricultural impact is huge. Far more than cars.
If we had half the agriculture (meaning cows) in the country,
we wouldn't even be talking about ev's.

Cherry picking gas emissions ignores the totality of the impact.

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I know that’s certainly a factor. According to this chart (from the EPA) agriculture is considerably less than transportation and electricity. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sou...-gas-emissions

I’d be interested to see statistics showing otherwise. What certainly is a factor is that the car has extended the exurbs into areas that are increasingly problematic.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by pasadena

I want our country to be rich in resources for future generations, not a failed experiment in political correctness.

"It's not my problem" is what destroys our national forests and put us in this hole.

I was trying to glean your approximate age without explicitly asking.

[sipmeister]

Portland General Electric has a gas powered plant in eastern Oregon. They shut down their coal powered plant due to regulations, but right next to it built the gas plant because, well demand is high.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by pasadena

Agricultural impact is huge. Far more than cars.
If we had half the agriculture (meaning cows) in the country,
we wouldn't even be talking about ev's.

Cherry picking gas emissions ignores the totality of the impact.

I'm not sure I follow your math. Per the EPA source XXTD posted, ag is about 10% of the total. Digging in a little deeper, transportation is 28% of the total, and light-duty vehicles are 59% of that. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fa...-gas-emissions

That makes light-duty vehicles responsible for approximate 65% more greenhouse gas emissions than agriculture.

Certainly I would agree that we should try to reduce emissions from all sources, wherever is feasible, but the EPA data do not seem to support the claim that agriculture emissions are "far more than cars."

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

I was trying to glean your approximate age without explicitly asking.

Why?
A lot younger than you think
This isn't grindr, bro.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by sipmeister

Portland General Electric has a gas powered plant in eastern Oregon. They shut down their coal powered plant due to regulations, but right next to it built the gas plant because, well demand is high.

It isn't just that demand is high, it's that there are times during the year when those plants have to be there - at least with the current and likely 10-15 year state of our energy infrastructure. The capacity factors (how often the plants run) are going down for gas and coal plants anyway, but they are important facilities for grid reliability. Unless we as a society are willing to make drastic changes in our patterns of consumption, then we still need natural gas infrastructure for those couple of weeks each year where a high-pressure system in the Northwest brings cold temps and zero wind. We can shut down the coal plants and some of the dirtier gas plants in the west - but we need to replace them with a whole lotta wind and solar, and some long-duration storage, like pumped hydro. That is quite expensive - but it's worth doing. The alternative is an unlivable planet, so, uhh... maybe we close some tax loopholes and just get it done?

[Steve in SLO]

We need to chip away at this problem on multiple fronts. We need to move beyond gasoline and beyond meat (TM) <—note levity.
This move by governor Newsom isn’t going to solve all the worlds problems, but consistently pushing the envelope in the proper direction is going to at least mitigate them.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Steve in SLO

We need to chip away at this problem on multiple fronts. We need to move beyond gasoline and beyond meat (TM) <—note levity.

This move by governor Newsom isn’t going to solve all the worlds problems, but consistently pushing the envelope in the proper direction is going to at least mitigate them.

.
.

Even though I think BeyondMeat is nasty and prefer to just eat beans..

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by pasadena

Why?
A lot younger than you think
This isn't grindr, bro.

Well, that explains a lot. I wanted a trailer for my two daughters. So, I posted “Daddy seeking Burley hook-up.” I got bombarded with answers, but it turns out I posted it to the wrong site. 😉