OT: Anyone here thinking of moving to Vermont?

[NHAero]

I was up there last summer and was pretty surprised at the $$$ that has moved in. Used to be timber framers and back to the landers. Only half joking, the number and size of new houses was not expected.
QUOTE=steveandbarb1;2802571]Move near Walpole NH then get best of both worlds. Say hi to Ken Burns for me...[/QUOTE]

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by NHAero

NH has high property taxes to fund schools, since no income or sales tax. Plus 5% tax on non-wage income. So once retired, may not be so low tax compared to other states. I live in MA after 35 yrs in NH, with lower property taxes on a house worth 3X as much. When I retire, I'm not sure overall taxes will be higher for me in MA.
To be clear, taxes aren't a driver for where I choose to live. Especially since higher tax states may share my values of spending on things like schools, elderly services, childhood services, environmental protection. Those states do seem to be more highly regulated, and one thing I miss about NH is people not in your business if you're not bothering them

Or, since this is primarily a road biking forum, how about paved roads?

I lived in Saratoga Springs NY for three years in the aughts, and have been recreating in Vermont, mostly winter, for 30. I would like to move to Vermont myself, but, compared to NY stare, just across the border, the road biking sucks, unless you're a dirt rider, which I am not. The major roads are mine fields of horrible surfaces that get destroyed by brutal winter conditions and truck traffic, and secondary roads inevitably turn to dirt, or, in late April thru May, rotted mud. You can experience the difference by crossing the state border from Washignton county over to the Manchester area, and within a mile or maybe less, no pavement. Sure, Washington county has a lot of dirt, it hosts the Battenkill, after all, but there are plenty of well paved roads paid for by the downstate NY metro taxpayer. Vermont does not have that source of revenue, and is quite the poor state. Some have said that Vermont would be Applalacia north if it wasn't for Boston and NY metro money flowing in, and I believe it. The business climate is pretty bad, and the place is a poster child for the Ill effects of taxation and regulation. Don't move there and expect to find well paying work, even in the professions. I had a few bizarre job interviews in Manchester before I moved back south to NYC metro after my work fizzled in Saratoga. It's not a place where people seem to know how to make money.

That said, the RE is relatively cheap, even near some popular ski areas. Dont be concerned with these NYC covid refugees driving up prices, one normal Vermont winter followed by mud season followed by black fly season will change their tender minds. Skiing is pretty good, if it snows, although that's been kinda lame lately. Don't expect the "locals" to be all warm and nice to you as an outsider. They really don't like anyone who isn't third generation. They're hard ass people, because those long winters make them that way. I was impressed how they banded together after the awful flood damage from the remnants of Irene about five years ago to build bridges and fix roads in time for winter. Hard workers.

Then there's the awful opioid and heroin problem in Vermont. Lock your doors.

I'd look at living near Saratoga or at least close to Vermont somewhere in NY. Much better roads, but, Vermont is a short drive.

[beartrapper]

Well VT sounded great till this last post.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Selfishly, I will suggest Keene, NH, instead.

I lived in Exeter, NH from age 3 to age 5 -- wonder if my ahccent would come back

[Hellgate]

In a word, "no."

[572cv]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Or, since this is primarily a road biking forum, how about paved roads?

I lived in Saratoga Springs NY for three years in the aughts, and have been recreating in Vermont, mostly winter, for 30. I would like to move to Vermont myself, but, compared to NY stare, just across the border, the road biking sucks, unless you're a dirt rider, which I am not. The major roads are mine fields of horrible surfaces that get destroyed by brutal winter conditions and truck traffic, and secondary roads inevitably turn to dirt, or, in late April thru May, rotted mud. You can experience the difference by crossing the state border from Washignton county over to the Manchester area, and within a mile or maybe less, no pavement. Sure, Washington county has a lot of dirt, it hosts the Battenkill, after all, but there are plenty of well paved roads paid for by the downstate NY metro taxpayer. Vermont does not have that source of revenue, and is quite the poor state. Some have said that Vermont would be Applalacia north if it wasn't for Boston and NY metro money flowing in, and I believe it. The business climate is pretty bad, and the place is a poster child for the Ill effects of taxation and regulation. Don't move there and expect to find well paying work, even in the professions. I had a few bizarre job interviews in Manchester before I moved back south to NYC metro after my work fizzled in Saratoga. It's not a place where people seem to know how to make money.

That said, the RE is relatively cheap, even near some popular ski areas. Dont be concerned with these NYC covid refugees driving up prices, one normal Vermont winter followed by mud season followed by black fly season will change their tender minds. Skiing is pretty good, if it snows, although that's been kinda lame lately. Don't expect the "locals" to be all warm and nice to you as an outsider. They really don't like anyone who isn't third generation. They're hard ass people, because those long winters make them that way. I was impressed how they banded together after the awful flood damage from the remnants of Irene about five years ago to build bridges and fix roads in time for winter. Hard workers.

Then there's the awful opioid and heroin problem in Vermont. Lock your doors.

I'd look at living near Saratoga or at least close to Vermont somewhere in NY. Much better roads, but, Vermont is a short drive.

A lot of states and regions have distinct differences in topography and settlement patterns. Vermont is no exception. If you think about your own state, you might agree that this is the case. One’s impression of a place can be rather different depending on the part of the state encountered, if it is only a part. The problems a state is facing are often the problems the nation is facing, sometimes more so, sometimes less. The question is, are they being recognized and, hey, how’s it going over the long term? Parts of the state do have opioid issues. So does the country. At the same time, we have the single best response to the Covid19 crisis in the entire country.

The original thread question asked if anybody (in this forum) was considering a move to VT. My original post was to be positive about that. The NYT article looked at one town, Winhall. If you are looking, look around. It’s a remarkably varied place, and you might find what you are looking for. If nothing else, you can see a (very small) state with distinct differences in its regions in a very short period of time.

[SPOKE]

I had the opportunity to visit Keene twice in 1997/98. Was working on a machining project for My customer, SKF. They had purchased several special built machine tools from Kingsbury Machine Tools. I found the area to be very pleasant and had a bunch of great cycling opportunities.

[smontanaro]

Originally Posted by dbnm

I went to school in Vermont and often think about moving back.

My youngest son went to UVM and never left...

[peanutgallery]

Well...if you move to Vermont

Your $12k bike is probably going to wind up on a trainer for the greater part of the year

Sad trombone

[biker72]

I think I'm allergic to snow...
I would like to visit Vermont to see the fall colors and of course do some bike riding.

DFW has heat and tornados. Just in the last few years California seems to be a fire magnet. I guess there is no place that's perfect.

[benb]

Yah to be more serious than my first post, and to go along with some of what has been said.

You need to be really hardy and ready to weather the winter.

I was born in Burlington, probably the majority of my extended family still lives in VT. Go back to the greatest generation and my family up there was very well off, by the boomers there was a lot of rags -> riches -> rags stories. My parents own a house outside Burlington but are not full time residents.

Very very very hard for people to escape depression & alcoholism up there in my extended family. The winters wear on you.

I have one cousin up there who must be in his late 20s by now who got messed in the whole meth thing in the last 10-15 years. Lots of early deaths due to alcoholism. My Uncle died before he got to 45.

Jobs are tough to come by. Come in with money or a remote job and that's ideal, but the lament for a lot of the locals is they are very weary of gentrification via the NYC second home owners. Burlington has changed dramatically as a result of that.

You've got weirdness like Church street, you can make $500k a year and walk down church street and feel like you can't afford much of what's in the shops and yet there are druggy/homeless looking people sitting out on the street outside the shops.

I really love VT. I would move back there, but I do know I'd find the winter tough. My wife is also from VT and lived there more of her life and I think she would flat out refuse to move back.

I am one of 10 cousins all born in VT. Only 1 is left in VT, everyone left to try and find a sustainable career even though only 1 of the 10 didn't get a college degree. Everyone is 30+ now and only 3 of us have managed to start a family. Working in the trendy expensive restaurants doesn't work that well for a career. There's a lot of weirdness.

If you can take the isolation it might be better to look in the even smaller/more remote areas of VT, but then the issues with drugs and poverty can be even worse.

If you don't move and become a permanent resident expect your taxes & such to be even higher. My parents house in MA is worth about 4x what their house in VT is worth, but the taxes on the house in VT are more. They inherited the house in VT, and they've probably lost money on it between repairs & taxes. That house has been in the family for close to 100 years so their was sentimental value to it but they might have been better off never having inheriting it.. selling it has become a major family issue. 2 of my siblings want to inherit it to keep the whole family thing going but my parents might need the money from selling it.

You really want to be into skiing/snowboard/X-C Skiing/snowshoeing or something to keep your spirits healthy in the winter.

[572cv]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

Well...if you move to Vermont

Your $12k bike is probably going to wind up on a trainer for the greater part of the year

Sad trombone

Well, Assos (among others) makes some great winter clothing, and Schwalbe makes studded snow tires Great opportunities to be styling and riding abound..... sort of. One of my riding buddies has the 50°F rule (no ride starts with a temp below that) but the cycling season still can run from sometime in March to sometime in November, though it tapers a good deal at either end. But that's why there's x-c skiing! and snow shoeing, hiking! Oh, yeah. the trainer too... oh well.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by benb

You really want to be into skiing/snowboard/X-C Skiing/snowshoeing or something to keep your spirits healthy in the winter.

Yeah, as a friend said to me when I learned how to ski thirty years ago, the best thing about the activity is that it gets you outside in the winter, and actually makes you look forward to the season. Otherwise, it's pretty dreary in the northeast, especially places like Vermont.

This winter is going to be really rough with no bars and restaurants to socialize in. Everybody is outside now, and that's shutting down very soon. But foliage is almost peak right now, so, get it while you can.

[bigbill]

I attend grad school in Vermont, online in Arizona. I will do my "residency" in June before receiving my diploma.

[AngryScientist]

i definitely do not think i'm tough enough to live in VT year round. one of my favorite states to visit though, for sure. we usually go up to the mad river in late summer for a family trip, but skipped this year with all the travel restrictions, and man, we missed it.

i agree that it's going to be a very rough winter if the ski lodges, etc can not open full capacity and we're still playing the social distancing game which kills some of the fun vibe of ski towns.