OT: Land Rover Defender 110

[IJWS]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

Ford sold them over a decade ago

Ford Sold them but they have not been able to let go of the LR design language. That said, Ford did a lot to make LR much more reliable than internet forums might claim so maybe emulating LR's design is Ford's prize for that effort!

I love my 2012 Range Rover. It is ridiculous what that thing can do on and off road. I would support that second look at the New Defender. Personally I would hold out for one of the two-door models that are being released this year but I understand needing four doors.

The Blue with White steel wheels is pretty cool.

[pasadena]

Yes, that's true.
The best examples are from BMW
Great sedans and wagons, then to suv's based on those platforms. All heavier, less efficent, worse dynamically and more expensive.
Their sedans have regressed.

But, that's the market.

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

I know that I’m not the typical consumer, but I’ve never experienced a crossover that’s better than the sedan/hatch it’s based on. Many of them don’t even seem to have appreciably more ground clearance. They just have taller seat bases and higher roof lines.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

serious question...
...But why is the US so enamored with SUVs? I get trucks, they serve a purpose but what is up with these? Sure they are great off roaders but 99% of the people just drive em to the supermarket.

Read Keith Breasher's book, High and Mighty, The Dangerous Rise of the SUV and how they got that way, by Keith Breasher.

Some reasons are; the aging population finds it easier to enter and exit vehicles with greater ground clearance than a typical sedan. I'm talking crossover vehicles here; true SUV's tend to be too high. The higher ride height of the vehicle makes the driver feel safer as they prefer to "look down" on other vehicles. In reality, they're not safer. Lastly, drivers tend to view SUV's as safer vehicles due to their perceived ruggedness and size, which are more false assumptions.

Originally Posted by pasadena

SUV's, or more precisely, "crossovers" have usurped the family station wagon from decades past.
Practicality, higher ride position, and people gravitate to the style.
99% of the suv's for sale definitely are not good offroad. They are not intended for it, nor wanted.

...The very same question you pose can be asked about any vehicle. Why do people want a 500hp 2 seat sports car when they only go to the mall?

Originally Posted by pasadena

There is a variety. The mainstream has abandoned sedans and wants crossovers. It makes a lot of sense, and now that crossovers are so competitive, often you get more value from them without any penalty in mpg's...

See above, and read Keith Breasher's book. Americans want it all, and they want it NOW.

[Johnnysmooth]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

serious question...

I get trucks, they serve a purpose but what is up with these? Sure they are great off roaders but 99% of the people just drive em to the supermarket.

I’m not so sure about those trucks. Living in Boston area and I see loads of mostly guys driving trucks and it is clear they are not in the construction or farming trades, which frankly are the only reasons to own one.

The rest buy it for the “macho” look.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by pasadena

SUV's, or more precisely, "crossovers" have usurped the family station wagon from decades past.
Practicality, higher ride position, and people gravitate to the style.
99% of the suv's for sale definitely are not good offroad. They are not intended for it, nor wanted.

The few true offroad suv's and trucks are specfic and retain high values.
The core market has needs and wants very different from the general public.
That is why a Jeep Wrangler scores horribly in drive comfort, dynamics and reliability yet retains very high resale value.

The very same question you pose can be asked about any vehicle. Why do people want a 500hp 2 seat sports car when they only go to the mall?

There is a variety. The mainstream has abandoned sedans and wants crossovers. It makes a lot of sense, and now that crossovers are so competitive, often you get more value from them without any penalty in mpg's.

Personally, I still love sedans and wagons but it's hard to argue against crossovers now that the market is flooded with good choices.

Everyone is different but when I drove wifes land rover to the mall, was a chore, no fun at all. Now on my 170hp manual wagon it is pretty fun. I can only imagine if it was in a 500hp 2 seater (has to also be manual), that would be something else But I guess people value different things, I am sure some people love their luxury SUVs but almost feels like a "want to be seen" in the range rover vs this is actually a good automobile.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Johnnysmooth

I’m not so sure about those trucks. Living in Boston area and I see loads of mostly guys driving trucks and it is clear they are not in the construction or farming trades, which frankly are the only reasons to own one.

The rest buy it for the “macho” look.

There are totally those people around here too, however I don't need a truck and will probably never buy one but there has been a bunch of times I do wish I had one. I just took a mattress to the dump and had to strap it to the top of my wagon, was a royal pain in the ass, with a truck that would have been cake. Also everytime we buy furniture from antique shop or flea market or when I had to do a few trips to get soil for my wifes vegetable garden... Trucks can be pretty utilitarian even for the people that are buying them for the macho look.

[bronk]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...-off-road-suv/

[Blue Jays]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

"...I understand that people want a vehicle with 7 seats so I get cars like the volvo XC90, my buddy just got one and its real nice. He wants to transport his whole family and does not want a minivan..."

The notion of a SUV with standard seating for seven people is mystifying to me. Are contemporary families really that big these days?
Were I a marketing executive at a vehicle manufacturer, my thought would be to make the vehicle with flexible configuration options.
Lots of seating for those with truly enormous families. More cargo room for those wishing to haul camping equipment (or whatever) and fewer people.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Blue Jays

The notion of a SUV with standard seating for seven people is mystifying to me. Are contemporary families really that big these days?
Were I a marketing executive at a vehicle manufacturer, my thought would be to make the vehicle with flexible configuration options.
Lots of seating for those with truly enormous families. Lots of cargo room for those looking to haul camping equipment (or whatever) and fewer people.

This vehicle can be ordered without a sunroof! Huge victory for those among us who dislike this “feature”!

[Blue Jays]

Originally Posted by saab2000

"...This vehicle can be ordered without a sunroof! Huge victory for those among us who dislike this 'feature!'..."

Good information to know, @saab2000! :-)

I briefly entertained the idea of a Range Rover Velar for a hot minute, yet it turned out to have very little utility for those of us into bicycles due to the sloping roof design. Also, one needed to get a fixed glass room or a motorized sunroof. No method to simply order a fixed metal roof.

Good to see you here faithfully keeping the "no sunroof" theme alive.
Hope you are also having success promoting that idea across-the-hall!

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Read Keith Breasher's book, High and Mighty, The Dangerous Rise of the SUV and how they got that way, by Keith Breasher.
....

"Specifically, it notes that the SUV is the car of choice for many of the nation's most self-centered people; and the bigger the SUV, the less gracious its owner is likely to be."

Nothing like painting people with broad strokes.....oh brother.....

[dbnm]

Only the base model comes without a sunroof.

Oh, and none of these will come with a tow hitch because that factory shut down due to covid and has not reopened.

So I am back to looking at the BMW M2 Comp.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by dbnm

Only the base model comes without a sunroof.

Oh, and none of these will come with a tow hitch because that factory shut down due to covid and has not reopened.

So I am back to looking at the BMW M2 Comp.

Lol

That makes no sense. Why would you ever consider one of these over a m2? I am looking m2 base or comp myself... not in the market yet but maybe soon-ish

[Kyle h]

I live defenders but the remake just looks like an over lander Kia Soul

[azrider]

The new Defender looks identical to old Jeep Patriots........or kia soul....blech

If I were in the market for a new truck/suv I would get the new Bronco......these things are Jeep killers for sure