OT: "The Miseducation of the American Boy."

[XXtwindad]

Just got done reading an interesting article here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...rticle/603046/
in the Atlantic Monthly.

Well, interesting is kind of a misnomer. I thought the writing was leaden and a tad too "hovering anthropologist" for my tastes. But it definitely painted a very bleak picture. According to the author, American boyhood seems to be firmly planted in 1957, with all the attendant misogyny, homophobia, and inability to express emotions.

Several passages caught my eye: the author interviewed a college sophomore who was so emotionally stunted from his parents' divorce that he needed to watch a marathon of Holocaust movies in order to allow himself to cry.

Several high school boys are quoted on sexual initiation, and most of the description reads as if David Lynch rewrote the script to "Animal House."

The author also quotes a prominent Bay Area sex educator who opines that "at one time or another, every young man will get a letter of admission to 'dick school.' The question is, will he drop out, graduate, or go for an advanced degree?"

I had to laugh at the analogy, but is nascent "toxic masculinity" so preordained?

Are we really failing our boys to the extent the author contends?

[tomato coupe]

You're really talking about disc brakes, aren't you?

[weisan]

[buddybikes]

The destruction of today's kids is "smart" phones. Kids (and young adults) don't know how to communicate. If you are a lucky one and use the phone as a tool, not crutch, it is pretty easy to excel at life.

[Louis]

What is this, Grumpy Old Man weekend or something?

[Hilltopperny]

I did not read the whole article, but I will just throw this out there. Males from 16-21 are still just basically chemical machines. Our brains aren’t fully developed and I believe that is evident in our behavior in those years. We are very much still caught up in the tribal order of things at that stage and most have not developed into their own man so to speak yet. Just the basic hormone levels we are producing will fog all kinds of judgement and have us behaving in ways we weren’t aware of or raised to act like.

I also think masculinity, sex and love are very subjective in that we all have our own definitions of what they mean to us. I was raised with different male influences around from the strong silent type to the over reaction is the only reaction type. I look back at the influences these things had on me and can see the effect on my life.

I think it is fair to say that we are all different and that our views and thoughts directly correlate to a combination of genetics and the environment we are raised in. I also believe that as we age and our brain stops subconsciously moving us in the direction of our base human instincts then we have more of an ability to choose the person we want to be and ascend to a higher existential plane. In order to lift ourselves up from these base instincts we have to acknowledge them. I don’t think being overly emotional or being emotionless are very beneficial all of the time.

The reality is that being overly emotional isn’t good for you and clouds judgement further hence the current state of things. Cooler heads prevail for a reason and it is hard to logically think when feeling emotional. On the flip side being emotionless may cause things to build up and bubble over.

Life is about balance and I find the current and constant narrative of men are inherently bad is just as toxic as the whole WWE left-right extreme political paradigm that is portrayed and constantly pushed. If you base your reality on what is being pushed by the constant flow of misinformation we are fed to keep us in a constant state of emotional madness then you are not making clear decisions. This also creates a more consumer friendly society and keeps people spending $$$ on things we don’t need and valuing said things over other human beings and personal relationships. If we are all individuals then we should be judged as such and not lumped in to groups and sub groups to have an identity. Just my opinion of course and not meant to offend.




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[weisan]

Hill pal, your best post ever (to me anyways).

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by weisan

hill pal, your best post ever (to me anyways).

+1.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

I did not read the whole article, but I will just throw this out there. Males from 16-21 are still just basically chemical machines. Our brains aren’t fully developed and I believe that is evident in our behavior in those years. We are very much still caught up in the tribal order of things at that stage and most have not developed into their own man so to speak yet. Just the basic hormone levels we are producing will fog all kinds of judgement and have us behaving in ways we weren’t aware of or raised to act like.

I also think masculinity, sex and love are very subjective in that we all have our own definitions of what they mean to us. I was raised with different male influences around from the strong silent type to the over reaction is the only reaction type. I look back at the influences these things had on me and can see the effect on my life.

I think it is fair to say that we are all different and that our views and thoughts directly correlate to a combination of genetics and the environment we are raised in. I also believe that as we age and our brain stops subconsciously moving us in the direction of our base human instincts then we have more of an ability to choose the person we want to be and ascend to a higher existential plane. In order to lift ourselves up from these base instincts we have to acknowledge them. I don’t think being overly emotional or being emotionless are very beneficial all of the time.

The reality is that being overly emotional isn’t good for you and clouds judgement further hence the current state of things. Cooler heads prevail for a reason and it is hard to logically think when feeling emotional. On the flip side being emotionless may cause things to build up and bubble over.

Life is about balance and I find the current and constant narrative of men are inherently bad is just as toxic as the whole WWE left-right extreme political paradigm that is portrayed and constantly pushed. If you base your reality on what is being pushed by the constant flow of misinformation we are fed to keep us in a constant state of emotional madness then you are not making clear decisions. This also creates a more consumer friendly society and keeps people spending $$$ on things we don’t need and valuing said things over other human beings and personal relationships. If we are all individuals then we should be judged as such and not lumped in to groups and sub groups to have an identity. Just my opinion of course and not meant to offend.




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Really profound response, Adam. Thanks. You're also an educator, so, presumably, you'd have a little better insight than the rest of us.

I agree with you on many counts. I didn't think the article was a great piece of journalism. I think it perpetuated a bunch of stereotypes. Granted, I live in the Bay Area, where we have successfully litigated every type of "phobia" and "ism" out of existence. (Just kidding! Want to see a stratified city in every way imaginable ... come to San Francisco!)

I don't think the author had an axe to grind, I just think she had books to sell.

[bigbill]

My son wants to ride tubeless on the road, I'm trying to figure out where I failed as a parent. Tubeless is just a gateway to disc brakes.

[gbcoupe]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

I did not read the whole article, but I will just throw this out there. Males from 16-21 are still just basically chemical machines. Our brains aren’t fully developed and I believe that is evident in our behavior in those years. We are very much still caught up in the tribal order of things at that stage and most have not developed into their own man so to speak yet. Just the basic hormone levels we are producing will fog all kinds of judgement and have us behaving in ways we weren’t aware of or raised to act like.

I also think masculinity, sex and love are very subjective in that we all have our own definitions of what they mean to us. I was raised with different male influences around from the strong silent type to the over reaction is the only reaction type. I look back at the influences these things had on me and can see the effect on my life.

I think it is fair to say that we are all different and that our views and thoughts directly correlate to a combination of genetics and the environment we are raised in. I also believe that as we age and our brain stops subconsciously moving us in the direction of our base human instincts then we have more of an ability to choose the person we want to be and ascend to a higher existential plane. In order to lift ourselves up from these base instincts we have to acknowledge them. I don’t think being overly emotional or being emotionless are very beneficial all of the time.

The reality is that being overly emotional isn’t good for you and clouds judgement further hence the current state of things. Cooler heads prevail for a reason and it is hard to logically think when feeling emotional. On the flip side being emotionless may cause things to build up and bubble over.

Life is about balance and I find the current and constant narrative of men are inherently bad is just as toxic as the whole WWE left-right extreme political paradigm that is portrayed and constantly pushed. If you base your reality on what is being pushed by the constant flow of misinformation we are fed to keep us in a constant state of emotional madness then you are not making clear decisions. This also creates a more consumer friendly society and keeps people spending $$$ on things we don’t need and valuing said things over other human beings and personal relationships. If we are all individuals then we should be judged as such and not lumped in to groups and sub groups to have an identity. Just my opinion of course and not meant to offend.




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As others have already mentioned... very well said. Great response!

[Steve in SLO]

I heard an interview with the author several months ago on NPR and the message seemed to be that boys were conflicted from their 'traditional' upbringing replete with pressure to be a strong, silent, athletic braggard bro and their dawning insight that this pressure and behavior was wrong and did not represent who they should or wanted to be. Several of the boys interviewed just seemed to need someone to talk to to put things in perspective. The piece was well-done and sounded better than the article reads. It was interesting to hear that some boys in this modern age are facing some of the same pressures many of us felt 20-40+ year ago.

[colker]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

Life is about balance and I find the current and constant narrative of men are inherently bad is just as toxic as the whole WWE left-right extreme political paradigm that is portrayed and constantly pushed.




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It´s not right x left anymore but something else. We got more freedom to do anything we want while getting rid of fundamental ethical values. TV told us there is only winning. Now we are told it´s leftism to care about others and that´s for losers. Freedom became no limits to offend. Freedom means no hierarchy and just because science says something you don´t necessarily have to follow. Freedom means people can be cancelled and cease to exist socially. If this is hard for us adults imagine how tough it is to a boy who still doesn´t know he will succeed as a man even biologically ?
Left x right is something else. We are going through extreme selfishness x misguided kindness; political conscience became political correctness and social conscience got lost as well.
Children should be brought up by us w/ as much honesty as possible and that means a lot of "i don´t know but i tried my best. Count on me".

[Tickdoc]

Didn’t read the article but I reread hilltop’s reply three times. Very well said. Massive social and cultural changes have happened in just my lifetime. When I compare my grandfather’s life to my father’s life to mine? What an amazing change in such a brief time.

[Mr. Pink]

Even Howard Stern (Howard Stern!) is worried about the effect of free and abundant pornography on today's youth.