If it doesn't fit, then I must quit

[scottcw2]

One frame 2-3 cm too big:




And another 3 cm too small:




The search continues...

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

One frame 2-3 cm too big:




And another 3 cm too small:




The search continues...

Plenty of people would enter a guilty plea for those frames …

[scottcw2]

Agreed, and I wish I could also.

I was surprised how much an extra 2 cm in the ST made a difference in ride feel. Even with my crank length and saddle height set the same, I just don't feel as stable on the longer ST. It's like my center of gravity is too high.

[colker]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

Agreed, and I wish I could also.

I was surprised how much an extra 2 cm in the ST made a difference in ride feel. Even with my crank length and saddle height set the same, I just don't feel as stable on the longer ST. It's like my center of gravity is too high.

Seat tube length has zero effect on bike feel for me. It´s all about where´s the wheels, where i sit and where are the bars.

[Blown Reek]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

I was surprised how much an extra 2 cm in the ST made a difference in ride feel. Even with my crank length and saddle height set the same, I just don't feel as stable on the longer ST. It's like my center of gravity is too high.

That's fascinating, because your center of gravity is the exact same. Maybe you just don't like how it looks.

[scottcw2]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

That's fascinating, because your center of gravity is the exact same. Maybe you just don't like how it looks.

I realize that is true, but I know what I feel. My Kvale with a 60 c-t ST feels extremely stable. The DeSalvo with a 61 c-t ST feels like I will tip over.

The only things that I can think could cause this are:

• the Kvale is running 23c tires and the DeSalvo is running 32s. Maybe the wider tires are also causing the bike to feel a bit higher.
• the Kvale has a BB drop of 8cm, the DeSalvo is 7cm. Maybe the higher BB makes the DeSalvo feel less stable.

[SPOKE]

bb height (or drop) is a huge factor in how a bike feels underneath you.....

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

I realize that is true, but I know what I feel. My Kvale with a 60 c-t ST feels extremely stable. The DeSalvo with a 61 c-t ST feels like I will tip over.

The only things that I can think could cause this are:

• the Kvale is running 23c tires and the DeSalvo is running 32s. Maybe the wider tires are also causing the bike to feel a bit higher.
• the Kvale has a BB drop of 8cm, the DeSalvo is 7cm. Maybe the higher BB makes the DeSalvo feel less stable.

Other people on this board disagree, but in my opinion BB drop is quite important. At one point I had two 'cross bikes that were otherwise quite similar; one with 68mm of drop and the other with 73mm of drop. I definitely enjoyed the ride of the bike with 73mm of drop more. It felt more planted, like I was part of the bike, while I felt like I was riding "on top of" the bike with 68mm of drop.

Like I say, plenty of people here think that 5mm can't make that much of a difference, but it seems important to me.

That said, 8cm of drop is a lot. Absolutely on the high end of the range for road bikes. Although I think Richard Sachs uses drops in that range, too...

[scottcw2]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

It felt more planted, like I was part of the bike, while I felt like I was riding "on top of" the bike with 68mm of drop.

Yes, this is a perfect description. I feel like a part of the Kvale, but on top of the DeSalvo.

Looks like I have my answer.

[Blown Reek]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

the Kvale has a BB drop of 8cm, the DeSalvo is 7cm. Maybe the higher BB makes the DeSalvo feel less stable.

Originally Posted by SPOKE

bb height (or drop) is a huge factor in how a bike feels underneath you

Perhaps this is the discrepancy. If the bikes were apples-to-apples, I'd call shenanigans. You'll definitely feel the difference between two identical bikes with different bb drop.

[jtbadge]

With your crank length and saddle height set the same, between the difference in BB drop and tire height, you're riding 15mm-ish closer to the ground on the Kvale. That's a huge difference in a feeling of stability.

[vqdriver]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

If it doesn't fit, then I must quit

you should get a johnnie cochran frame

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

With your crank length and saddle height set the same, between the difference in BB drop and tire height, you're riding 15mm-ish closer to the ground on the Kvale. That's a huge difference in a feeling of stability.

Second that opinion. Plus pnuematic trail is a thing, right? So those 32c tires are going to contribute to a different feel underway as well.

FWIW, I like the way my Kirk rides with 28s much more than how it rides with 32s...

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

That's fascinating, because your center of gravity is the exact same. Maybe you just don't like how it looks.

Or maybe there are many more differences than just the seat tube length; but because the other differences aren't as plainly visible, all differences in feel have been ascribed to the most visible difference (seat tube length).

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

Perhaps this is the discrepancy. If the bikes were apples-to-apples, I'd call shenanigans. You'll definitely feel the difference between two identical bikes with different bb drop.

Even if the two bikes have the same BB height? BB drop is just a frame dimension, and doesn't affect handling directly. BB height is a function of BB drop and wheel/tire size.

The bike with 23mm tires and 8cm BB drop will have a BB height close to 2cm lower than the bike with 32mm tires and 7cm BB drop. If that's enough to make you feel like you're going to fall over on the higher BB bike, then you'd never keep from falling to the the ground on a suspended MTB, which can have BB height 8cm or more higher than a road bike.