Phil Liggett says Lance Armstrong did not need to cheat to win

[Elefantino]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

His 80k Giro escape was also the kind of thing you just don't see anymore.

Not since Landis' 120k in the '06 Tour, which had, um, extenuating circumstances.

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

Not since Landis' 120k in the '06 Tour, which had, um, extenuating circumstances.

Hope you guys aren't implying that Froome did all that cleanly.

[benb]

Yah Froome had his moments. So did Armstrong, Landis, etc..

It's not like any of these riders are ever boring all the time.. it's a bike race, they tend to be exciting.

[EB]

We should find a way to combine the Lance threads into the disc/rim brake threads.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

We should find a way to combine the Lance threads into the disc/rim brake threads.

campy or shimano discs?

[Hellgate]

Can we add carbon vs steel too?

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

campy or shimano discs?

I want a bike made out of 1970s lugged Reynolds steel tubes with tubeless Suntour hydraulic rim brakes built by Sheldon Brown.

Can I get that on Craigslist? It would be N+1 for sure.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

We should find a way to combine the Lance threads into the disc/rim brake threads.

In a recent interview, he denied ever using rim brakes.

[tkbike]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Phil Liggett is proof a village somewhere is missing its idiot.

Typical, expected ignorant comment😏

[Elefantino]

Back when all you could get were highlights on CBS with background music, he was cycling commentary.

Now he's like an aging Eric Burdon, still trying to croak out "House of the Rising Sun" to casino audiences in Laughlin.

[phishrabbi]

Liggett's voice *is* the TdF for me. I've been hooked on pro cycling since Lemond's miracle in '89. Sue me, that's when I came of age.

I assume everyone is doping. In every sport. All the time. Mantle was high on speed for every at bat in '56 for the triple crown. He still hit all those baseballs.

For me, however said all that- I find the newest crop of riders to be really exciting. Pogacar is a delight to watch. He attacks, rides with heart, etc. And Remco's way of simply riding people off his wheel is astounding. Cycling is good tv.

There's no such thing as a level playing field no matter what. I still think the guy with the best luck and most heart wins. Lance was that guy. Phil is right.

[tctyres]

Well, I don't listen to Phil Liggett. If he's on, I turn the sound off.

Someone made the comment once that doping took Lance from 6.60 W/kg to 6.62 W/kg -- enough to make a difference. Lance had race craft, which matters a lot. If you can think late in a race, you can win. That's what he did. He used dope to allow that to happen.

A great example is the Trofeo Laigueglia 1993 where he outfoxed 3 other riders to take the win at the line. (Somewhere on the youtube, there is a great break down of this race. I can't find it now, but you can forward to the end here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9P0w1P-hh8)

I've listened to his forward podcast enough to know that he is a tool. He had the winning sauce for sure, but he's not someone I admire.

[martl]

This wasn't the first generation of cyclists who cheated, the problem rather was that generation took it to a new level. We know from Operation Fuentes that the cost for the "full program" was in the range of a couple of 100k per year per rider, meaning it was only available to a chosen few. In combination with the huge effect EPO, HGH and blood transfer methods have, which is much bigger than the forbidden methods of prior generations, this created an imbalancnce within the peloton causing a domino effect. - join the needle train, or get another job, because you can't match that turbo boost with talent any more.
To speculate who triggered that spiral is futile, but it is safe to say that Armstrong/USPS were not only reacting to what they found when they arrived, neither did Bjarne/Ullrich/Telekom or Pantanis or Virenques lot. No victims here.

It robbed the fans ultimately of what could have been one of the most epic eras of the sport, it cost many a career of talented riders, and ultimately, almost every protagonist also paid the price.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by tctyres

Someone made the comment once that doping took Lance from 6.60 W/kg to 6.62 W/kg -- enough to make a difference.

You think his extensive doping program yielded a watt-and-a-half, and that was enough to make a difference?

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

You think his extensive doping program yielded a watt-and-a-half, and that was enough to make a difference?

First, I didn't make the comment. I'm remembering or misremembering an analyst's comment. It's rare for any GC contender to ever be able to rip the legs off the competition -- the margins are slight. That's what the comment was meant to imply.

The issue is, "What's his ability at full time?" which I was trying to drive at with the 1993 race. The doping allows him extra time for his full time power and additional high-level thought processes. Everyone is cooked after 5 hours racing in the lead pack. If someone can make one or two extra decisions that are advantageous in the final 10 km, the odds are in their favor.