#16
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And the reason we are beyond the tipping point. But really, who cares! Bring on Amazon Prime Days! Staggering |
#17
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One of the last, and most memorable, performances by a brilliant satirist. Bears repeating here when we talk about saving the planet vs. ourselves.
Whatever your politics (arguably the greatest and most consequential tragedy in human history is how the environment became political), we are *long* past the tipping point. Your individual contributions matter only in that you can tell your children and grandchildren that you tried. Quote:
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©2004 The Elefantino Corp. All rights reserved. |
#18
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there is no impact a single person can have that is meaningful. nothing short of massive policy change and cultural change is going to do the job.
this does include shaming poor behavior, as i know no other way to make 30% of the humans on this planet care. the planet is way more important than a few fragile egos to me. this isnt just about climate change. you guys spend time outdoors, (well most of you do anyway). you see the signs, its pretty obvious we are not taking care of things. Im very pessimistic, to the point i decided no kids. how can one not be? |
#19
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Quote:
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#20
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One thing that has become apparent, even if you/me are thinking we're doing the right thing (in this case recycling being incinerated) in some cases it is not being done by those whom we trust to do..
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/...g-incinerator/ China refusing recycling (known as "foreign garbage" ie not being recycled there either): https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/c...ic-papers.html Back to the OP, why are you using so many cable ties that you worry about recycling? I view them as semi permanent, like a fender mount for the winter. They (original nylon ty-raps) should be recyclable, and there are re usable options. I also use Velcro (real Velcro brand) tape (double sided loops on one side/hooks on other) from Joann fabrics for most bike things (like when the fake Velcro wears out on saddle bags, or to hold a frame pump, etc) Last edited by Davist; 07-15-2019 at 09:10 AM. |
#21
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Interesting questions - what to do? does it make a difference? If it doesn't make a difference should I do it anyway?
As someone who walked away from a lucrative career in the private practice of law to pursue the Quixodic quest to do my part to save the nonhuman species on earth, I ask myself these questions frequently. What to do? What you can. Will it matter or makle a difference? Maybe, but I've been at this a long time and many/most times I go through this mental exercise I conclde no, we're screwed. But then I put that out of mind and carry on. Why? In my view there are only two fundamental choices: excercise individual responsibility and do what you can in hopes that we find a way out of this mess or essentially say it's hopeless so I'm just gonna live my life without regard. When I look at or think of my son, I choose the former. For me it's that simple. So I say do what you can and you are comfortable with, whether its fewer airline flights, giving up (or eating less beef), recycling nitrile gloves and not using zip ties. But none of us are perfect and few if any of us will live a life of truly minimal impact. That makes it easy for others to point fingers and cry hypocrite, and factually they're not wrong. But if we let perfect be the enemy of the good then surely we are doomed. There are now about 7.7 homo sapiens on earth. Two hundred years ago we numbered about 1 million. Each individual eats, craps, uses, consumes. Consumes what? Goods grown, raised or manufactured on this little green orb in space. Are resources disappearing? Google is coming out with an interesting tool that allows one to view time elapsed aerial photos showing landscape level changes over reasonably long periods of time (forgetting the name right now but will look for it) - it's impactful - pictures worth a thousand words - and demonstrates some of the changes we have wrought. While we've raised the earth's capacity to grow food and accomodate us because we are very clever, if you think about it every conflict on earth can be reduced to issues of control and power that are fundamentally tied to resource scarcity and control, and with a changing climate expect those conflicts to worsen. Why do folks think many people are trying to migrate elsewhere, like to here. When the place that you have lived your life is sinking into the sea or desolately dry and unable to provide, what do you do? When the resources in your country are controlled by a different tribe that believes there's only enough for members of that tribe and no "others" what do you do? If you are powerful and determine there are insufficient resources for your tribe, and your neighbors are weak, what happens? Unless you believe that homo sapiens are not animals like all the rest of the species on earth, it's not hard to observe populations dynamics, behaivor and what happens when species are confronted by scarcity. And its easy to read books about how we have migrated across continents, laying waste to food sources, like fisheries and other resources., and then looking for the next supply. We have not escaped fundamental ecological and biological realities, and at some point I fear the consequences for all life on earth will be severe. |
#22
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In Orange County, NY, farmland has disappeared quickly during my lifetime, making way for sprawling McMansions with huge lawns. Now that we get cheap food from overseas, local farming is unprofitable.
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It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that certain je ne sais quoi. --Peter Schickele |
#23
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Very well said. I like your style
we keep on because we have only this life to get right, and i intend to live this life my best. that doesnt mean lazy easy "best" with technology and yachts and cheating and running people over. that means leaving my slice of earth better than i found it. this lazy way forward humans have taken, grabbing resources at will and creating just as much waste is really weird, and no way to characterize a best way to live. Quote:
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#24
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Great response, Kirk! Well written.
To quote ‘The Graduate’, “One word. Plastics.” I find it appalling how much of what we buy is packaged in non-degradable, non- recyclable material. Sometimes it’s the best way to protect an item but most often it’s a nuisance and unnecessary. The recyclers in the last 2 cities I’ve lived in (and I think it reflects the national reality) have severely restricted what plastic they accept. So it ends up in landfills and oceans. I’m no fan of Wal-mart, but it is such a huge player, that it can demand changes in packaging and shipping that are more environmentally friendly. My belief is that while whatever things we can do personally are important and example-setting, the real change must come at the societal level. It’s encouraging to see corporations, states, and cities do an end-run around our complacent national government. |
#25
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I took marciero's original post to be asking, what can we cyclists--or let's say, the cyclists who care about such things--do to reduce our carbon footprint?
There's a related problem, though: in asking about the ways we can reduce our footprint on the planet, we inevitably have to deal with the question of whether any of these actions are 'worth it.' And this leaves the door open to anyone who doesn't believe that humans play a role in climate change, doesn't believe in climate change at all, doesn't think we can or should do anything about it, etc. I'd prefer if the thread set aside the larger questions about climate change and simply focused on material things like the ones marciero mentioned--nitrile gloves, etc. Clearly environmentally friendly products form a distinctly successful market within the cycling community--citrus degreaser, things like that. And cycling itself is obviously an 'environmentally friendly' practice. Granted, the meta questions are hard to ignore. But I think most of us are familiar with the various arguments for and against belief in climate change. Here's a meta question, for example: I read recently that 100 companies are responsible for 70% of global warming (though this statistic has been disputed--surprise, surprise). So some argue that it's irresponsible to focus on individual consumer acts, when global warming isn't actually a result of you riding a bike to the post office, rather than taking your car. Still, I'd be curious to hear people's ideas about what specific things we bike riders can do to reduce waste--assuming that it makes a difference. |
#26
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the whole climate change "debate" is well settled in just about every other developed country, including those of conservative political persuasions. Of course, whether conservative leaning politicians do anything of substance is another fact altogether, but at least they don't deny it. that said, you are right about the "salvation of $100k all electric cars". Unless the electricity is recharged using hydro, wind, nuclear (horrors, /s), it's just a less direct way of burning of fossil fuel or coal Quote:
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#27
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Thanks for the Carlin quote, BTW. Carlin was brilliant. I had the pleasure of hearing that bastard live a few months before he died.
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♦️♠️ ♣️♥️ |
#28
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Did your 25/45/65 y/o self ever stop to wonder why the trees DIDN'T disappear? Perhaps because people realized the direction things were headed and made changes? I'm quite sure if the 10 y/o version of you had really listened, he would have heard the phrase "At current rates". At one time, this was true. We clear cut with abandon. Now, we still cut way too many trees so you can continue to wipe your selfish butt with the softest paper, but we at least try to manage how we do it. We try to reach a balance. We make an effort. We are failing, but we continue to try. Most of us, anyway. I'm sorry the maths don't work for you. They work fine for 95% of scientists, and every developed country save the US. Perhaps it's time you checked your work a bit more closely. |
#29
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How the Earth will End
This was an interesting series to watch....like most History Channel shows, they could get to the point in 10 minutes but they drag it out for 30....
https://www.history.com/shows/doomsd...world-will-end BTW - Love the George Carlin quote....heard that years ago...he did sum it up nicely.
__________________
2003 CSi / Legend Ti / Seven 622 SLX |
#30
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Someone else posted recently, better to have lots of people doing a bit then a few people being perfect.
What I am trying to do: Use the train/public transit to get to ride locations / ride out/train home. Reusable lunch tubs. Buy as much locally grown food as possible. - Eat in season. Not introducing my daughter to straws. Reusable shopping bags. Keep house a bit cooler in winter. Can't win warmer in summer argument though. Mea culpa things CO2 cartridges and new tubes after a flat Ride food/drinks My daughter obsesses about paper towel - she'll grow out of it. Not car pooling to work with my wife, even though we work less than a mile from eachother. Not taking transit to work - even though the subway is a mile from my office - the first and last miles are hell, plus it takes 40 minutes more than driving Plastic wrap and bags. |
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