Builder's Spotlight The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-17-2018, 09:36 PM
Fiertetimestwo Fiertetimestwo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 302
Canyon geometry question (slightly dumb)

Does anyone have a familiarity with the Canyon Endurace geometry chart on the Canyon website? (I wish I could embed the chart here but I am hopeless with that sort of thing).

My question is- in relation to seat tube angles, they only show 73.5 degrees in the column relating to medium frames- for all of the other frame sizes there is only a blank shown for the seat tube angle.

My guess is that this means that all sizes have a 73.5 seat tube angle, but does anyone know for sure?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-17-2018, 09:44 PM
wildboar's Avatar
wildboar wildboar is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 534
Page 10 shows 73.5 for all sizes:

https://www.canyon.com/download/2015...yer_US_Web.pdf


Page "16" of the catalog... "10" of the pdf
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-17-2018, 10:36 PM
Kontact Kontact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunny Seattle
Posts: 2,749
That PDF is for the 2015 Canyon line, but the way the chart is constructed is that any number in the middle means it applies to all sizes.

I don't know why they do that when in just causes confusion.
__________________
Get off your junk: www.kontactbike.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-17-2018, 11:30 PM
bitpuddle bitpuddle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 152
Out of curiosity, why do you care about the sta?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-17-2018, 11:34 PM
Benjamin Benjamin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 213
Endurace was redesigned for 2018. Not sure how the geo has changed, but you should check with Canyon for the numbers. Their email customer support is slightly slow to respond sometimes, but usually very thorough when I contact them.

fwiw I have a 2018 Endurace and love it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-18-2018, 12:24 AM
Kontact Kontact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunny Seattle
Posts: 2,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Endurace was redesigned for 2018. Not sure how the geo has changed, but you should check with Canyon for the numbers. Their email customer support is slightly slow to respond sometimes, but usually very thorough when I contact them.

fwiw I have a 2018 Endurace and love it.
Are the numbers on the website not for 2018?
__________________
Get off your junk: www.kontactbike.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-18-2018, 03:07 AM
Fiertetimestwo Fiertetimestwo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpuddle View Post
Out of curiosity, why do you care about the sta?
I used to have a frame with 73.5 STA and felt I could never get the saddle back far enough to be comfortable without having the saddle pushed all the way back on the rails.

What I have found works is a shallower STA. One of my current bikes has a 72 STA with a "normal" seatpost, and on another there is a 73 STA with an extra setback seatpost (FSA).

The centre of the saddle is the same distance behind the centre of the bottom bracket on each bike. This gives a much larger setback than is apparently "normal" but it seems to work for me.

My untutored take on it is that I probably have long femurs relative to everything else. I am therefore wary of STA's any steeper than 73 and will probably therefore pass on the Canyon, although they are very attractive.

Am I missing any other obvious solution?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-18-2018, 03:08 AM
Fiertetimestwo Fiertetimestwo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
That PDF is for the 2015 Canyon line, but the way the chart is constructed is that any number in the middle means it applies to all sizes.

I don't know why they do that when in just causes confusion.
Thanks! I am glad it wasn't just me who found it confusing.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-18-2018, 04:05 AM
Kontact Kontact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunny Seattle
Posts: 2,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiertetimestwo View Post
I used to have a frame with 73.5 STA and felt I could never get the saddle back far enough to be comfortable without having the saddle pushed all the way back on the rails.

What I have found works is a shallower STA. One of my current bikes has a 72 STA with a "normal" seatpost, and on another there is a 73 STA with an extra setback seatpost (FSA).

The centre of the saddle is the same distance behind the centre of the bottom bracket on each bike. This gives a much larger setback than is apparently "normal" but it seems to work for me.

My untutored take on it is that I probably have long femurs relative to everything else. I am therefore wary of STA's any steeper than 73 and will probably therefore pass on the Canyon, although they are very attractive.

Am I missing any other obvious solution?
You already mentioned the other solution - a seat post with more setback. You only need 5mm more setback to go from 73 to 73.5°
__________________
Get off your junk: www.kontactbike.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-18-2018, 12:43 PM
dddd dddd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 625
For that matter, the choice of saddle and it's rail shape/positioning can play a big part in determining how far back (or forward, as in my case) that the rider can sit.
Just be sure to select a post that is known to be strong enough for your overall situation including total setback, rider weight and how hard and fast that you are crossing over how big of a "road surface feature scale".
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-18-2018, 01:22 PM
simonov simonov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpuddle View Post
Out of curiosity, why do you care about the sta?
Why wouldn't you. The STA will dictate the range of possible saddle positioning given a preferred saddle and post. It also informs the real world reach when looking at top tube length. Understanding the relationship between TT and STA will help inform options and guide decisions on seatpost setback, stem length and other reach related characteristics. A 55 TT with 74 deg STA and a 55 TT with 73 deg STA, both as most manufacturers measure, will have a roughly 1 centimeter difference in the "length" of the fit. Depending on where a rider fits in that range it could mean one bike won't get the saddle far enough forward without a compromise or that the other wont get the saddle far enough back. Sure it's just one number in a complex geometry, but it's an important one.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-18-2018, 02:17 PM
Kontact Kontact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunny Seattle
Posts: 2,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonov View Post
Why wouldn't you. The STA will dictate the range of possible saddle positioning given a preferred saddle and post. It also informs the real world reach when looking at top tube length. Understanding the relationship between TT and STA will help inform options and guide decisions on seatpost setback, stem length and other reach related characteristics. A 55 TT with 74 deg STA and a 55 TT with 73 deg STA, both as most manufacturers measure, will have a roughly 1 centimeter difference in the "length" of the fit. Depending on where a rider fits in that range it could mean one bike won't get the saddle far enough forward without a compromise or that the other wont get the saddle far enough back. Sure it's just one number in a complex geometry, but it's an important one.
This is all true enough, but real world it isn't such a great idea to presume that you calculate your stem length. Differences in brake hood and handlebar shape can have an unexpected impact on what kind of reach you're really going to need.


For most folks, a 25mm set back seat post will work with a standard saddle pretty well between 72 and 75° STA, which is why it doesn't come up a lot.
__________________
Get off your junk: www.kontactbike.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-18-2018, 06:25 PM
simonov simonov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
This is all true enough, but real world it isn't such a great idea to presume that you calculate your stem length. Differences in brake hood and handlebar shape can have an unexpected impact on what kind of reach you're really going to need.


For most folks, a 25mm set back seat post will work with a standard saddle pretty well between 72 and 75° STA, which is why it doesn't come up a lot.
Yes and no. I should have been more clear, but my comments are with the assumption that people like to use the same saddles, pedals, bars and group on their bikes. And, if so, the only variables are the STA, the TT length, the stem length, and the seat post setback + saddle position on the rails combination. The point being that STA can be informative along with TT length if the other variables are kept consistent from bike to bike. But, yeah, if you change around saddles, posts, bars and groups, all bets are off.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-18-2018, 06:42 PM
Kontact Kontact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunny Seattle
Posts: 2,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonov View Post
Yes and no. I should have been more clear, but my comments are with the assumption that people like to use the same saddles, pedals, bars and group on their bikes. And, if so, the only variables are the STA, the TT length, the stem length, and the seat post setback + saddle position on the rails combination. The point being that STA can be informative along with TT length if the other variables are kept consistent from bike to bike. But, yeah, if you change around saddles, posts, bars and groups, all bets are off.
Yes, if you only change one variable, that is true.

I just don't know anyone who has multiple road bikes of different brands but all of them have Dura Ace 9000 and the same model Easton bars. Most people have multiple bikes to get something better or different.
__________________
Get off your junk: www.kontactbike.com
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:48 PM
simonov simonov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Yes, if you only change one variable, that is true.

I just don't know anyone who has multiple road bikes of different brands but all of them have Dura Ace 9000 and the same model Easton bars. Most people have multiple bikes to get something better or different.
I'm not so much saying that you can only change one variable, but that understanding the relationship between STA and other dimensions is important to understanding how the contact points all relate and how to achieve the desired fit on a new bike. This is in response to a comment (implication really) from someone that there's no reason to look at STA. My assertion is that STA is as important as any other measurement to understand a bike and what positions can be achieved.

That said, I have 6 road bikes and most of them use the same saddle, same bars, and same group. The bikes are different and my fit is achieved by seatposts of different setback or stems of different length. I have a few friends who have even less variation than me from one setup to another and the main variable is really just the frame.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.