30 for 30 Lance part 2. Any changes?

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

What would change my opinion? Retiring from public life and going to help cancer patients without a camera crew around.

The comparison I make is Michael Vick. The guy is still working with ASPCA and Humane Society groups today, even after retiring. Do you see it plastered on ESPN? No. But the guy make a horrible mistake, and has done a lot of good work atoning for it.

Vick’s 30 for 30 was "plastered" on ESPN like Lance’s was.

.

[mg2ride]

Did he apologize to FlashUNC or other people that had absolutely nothing to do with any of this?

If he did of ever does, I will discard him as a Pu---. Until then, I'm still a fanboy!

And P.S. He absolutely did win the TDF 7 times. That is fact.

[Nomadmax]

A thief will steal and a murderer will kill but you never really know where you stand with a liar.

[weisan]

It's probable that people who share some aspects of similarity whether it's their approach to life, value system, cancer survivorship, the way they get to the top, their background, romantic life, career advancement strategy, personality, social circle etc etc tend to or is better able to sympathize with Lance in some ways and those who don't, tend to find him offensive, in direct loggerheads and unforgivable.

It comes down to the individual, not so much what Lance did or did not do.

There's no need to get defensive or negative.

Every one of us has a perfectly good mirror at home. Just go and look at yourself in the mirror and you will know the answer to that. Don't need to tell us.

Lance and I are almost the same age.

I can sympathize with him. Doesn't mean he and I will agree on everything but I think we can have a good conversation.

[fijichf]

He was a good salesman until the house of cards fell...made you want to believe. I feel sorry for his kids.

[Elefantino]

I tore my shirt over -7 long ago.

I'd rather discuss politics than pond scum.

[makoti]

Didn't watch, so can't say. Did he come clean, really clean, on how big an ass he was? How he tried to destroy those who stood up to him? Or, was it as he said in the promo, "My truth"? I'm guessing that's what he did, so don't feel I missed anything.

Defend him all you want. Record books are rightfully devoid of his name. Continue to believe your fantasies, because they made good television. He never won the TdF.

[sailorboy]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

Part 2 much more insightful than Part 1

Would have been nice to have more commentary from other people and less -7

This ^
The best parts of both 1 and 2 were the comments from others, especially his former inner circle like Floyd, Tyler, Frankie etc. I know we've probably heard all the truth from them in the past several times over, but it would have been more interesting to hear more of their take on how Lance has or had vindictively attempted to ruin their lives, or conversely how they survived those attempts and prospered (reminds one of another toxic narcissist we have front and center).

One of the best scenes was of Tyler explaining how he hated Lance for a while, but he realized he had to let it go and move on with his life. Yet it seemed clear that Lance hasn't fully moved on and still harbors toxic feelings toward many people.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by sailorboy

Yet it seemed clear that Lance hasn't fully moved on and still harbors toxic feelings toward many people.

This was my take. Lance still comes across as a sociopath. A more contrite, controlled sociopath, but his moral/ethical compass still doesn't point north. The segment with his eldest son was telling. When the interviewer asked Lance what he would say to Luke if he (Luke) wanted to use PEDs, Lance qualified the answer with the condition that his advice may be different for college and pro sports. It was clear that to Lance, lying/cheating are situationally dependent. If you are still making those kind of rationalizations, you haven't learned your lesson. There were several other moments like that within the second episode. My conclusion: a reasonably balanced documentary that was worth watching.

Greg

[LegendRider]

Lance's answer to the hospital room question was hilariously evasive. Basically he said those who want to believe it (Betsy, Frankie) can believe it, but he has no recollection.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by sailorboy

This ^
The best parts of both 1 and 2 were the comments from others, especially his former inner circle like Floyd, Tyler, Frankie etc. I know we've probably heard all the truth from them in the past several times over, but it would have been more interesting to hear more of their take on how Lance has or had vindictively attempted to ruin their lives, or conversely how they survived those attempts and prospered (reminds one of another toxic narcissist we have front and center).

One of the best scenes was of Tyler explaining how he hated Lance for a while, but he realized he had to let it go and move on with his life. Yet it seemed clear that Lance hasn't fully moved on and still harbors toxic feelings toward many people.

I wasn’t inclined to watch it because I figured it would rehash the same stuff we already know. But I watched it last night, and while it did rehash the same stuff, it was interesting to hear from the others involved like Landis, Hamilton, Julich, Emma O’Reilly, etc.

In the end, the show confirmed my belief that Armstrong is a narcissistic sociopath and bully. One of the most telling exchanges, IMO, was when he was asked if he would object to his college football playing son using PEDS. He answered that he would tell him it was a bad idea now, but if he were in the NFL “it would be different conversation.” So according to Lance, it’s OK to dope if you are a professional athlete. It’s also pretty clear that he did have the UCI doing his bidding, and he likely was the one who (vindictively) reported Hamilton.

I also thought it interesting to hear from his old Triathlon coach about how much of jackass and bully he was even as a teenager when he was first starting out in that sport. The guy is rich from his investments (Uber). He should just go away.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by mg2ride

Did he apologize to FlashUNC or other people that had absolutely nothing to do with any of this?

If he did of ever does, I will discard him as a Pu---. Until then, I'm still a fanboy!

And P.S. He absolutely did win the TDF 7 times. That is fact.

Contrition is not a sign of weakness.

[PQJ]

Originally Posted by mg2ride

And P.S. He absolutely did win the TDF 7 times. That is fact.

It's also a fact that he was stripped of all seven titles. The official record of the history of the race makes no mention of him (https://www.letour.fr/en/history). An unofficial record of the history of the races has his name crossed out; seven times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cation_winners). That's gotta burn.

Still, I enjoyed watching him race and I enjoyed the 30 for 30 thingie. It didn't change my opinion of him, which has softened over time. He's an asshole and he got his due.

[54ny77]

Great show, well done. Leaves the viewer with plenty of info to form their own opinion.

Agree with those who said sociopath. And all of it in connection with riding bikes with skinny tires. Who knew. Amazing.

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by PQJ

It's also a fact that he was stripped of all seven titles. The official record of the history of the race makes no mention of him (https://www.letour.fr/en/history). An unofficial record of the history of the races has his name crossed out; seven times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cation_winners). That's gotta burn.

Still, I enjoyed watching him race and I enjoyed the 30 for 30 thingie. It didn't change my opinion of him, which has softened over time. He's an asshole and he got his due.