Berd PolyLight Spokes. Silly-light Polymer Spokes

[ergott]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'd be more concerned with abrasion of the spokes where they contact the edges of the flange, or where the contact each other at the crosses.

Lightweight "ties" their spokes at the crossings. I wonder of something similar could be done if that's an issue. I could also see lacing the wheel without interlacing the crossings to help, but then derailleur clearance can be an issue.

Interesting stuff either way.

[cadence90]

Originally Posted by parallelfish

My understanding of your diagrams was that you were trying to adapt some sort of circular anchor to a standard drilled flange, with the spokes going through the spoke hole and looping through the adaptor.

The idea was only to "clean up" the look at the flange in MaraudingWalrus' photo, but it would function exactly as the individual strips do there: run "spoke" through a flange hole; run the "circular anchor" through the loop in the spoke; tighten down; proceed to next spoke.

The problem is that the circle couldn't be pre-made, because there would then be no way to run it through the spoke loops. So, it would have to really be one longer straight piece of polymer (i.e. all those little strips combined into one strip), then joined/sealed in order to complete the circle.

Originally Posted by parallelfish

Also seems like one would have to implement an anchor on each side of a flange to implement inboard and outboard spokes for a cross pattern.

Hmm, yes I guess so. I am not a wheel-builder.

Originally Posted by parallelfish

Appears to me that the small individual anchors are the easiest and most versatile way to adapt these spokes to a standard hub and allow a variety of spoke patterns. Most like a normal spoke implementation.

I imagine so, but even in that case what a complete nightmare to replace a broken "spoke"!
.

[cadence90]

Welcome to the future of cycling. At Berd, we have engineered an innovative bike spoke to bring your cycling to a new level. Berd PolyLight spokes leverage the latest advances in polymer technology to create the world’s lightest spoke while maintaining exceptional strength, aerodynamics, and durability.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

They forgot 'game changer'....How much $ are these things?

Plus, they wrote "bike", rather than "bicycle".

So, either they don't know proper "bike" vs "bicycle" usage in the USA
or
they are stealthily really going after Alpina and other motorcycle spoke suppliers' market
or
they are stealthily really going after beeatnik's "bika" market, and intentionally misspelled "bika" for now.


.

[jumphigher]

I dont get the negativity on these spokes, I think they're very innovative, myself. And it's cool the OP is building up a set of wheels with them, he's blazing new trails.

In any case I'm super curious to know what they'll ride like.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jumphigher

I dont get the negativity on these spokes, I think they're very innovative, myself. And it's cool the OP is building up a set of wheels with them, he's blazing new trails.

In any case I'm super curious to know what they'll ride like.

I think the point is the very marginal ‘gains’ of these(if there are any), big $, coupled with pretty typical ‘hype’ about how this will ‘change everything’...
It’s about spokes..they are already pretty light and very reliable and not very expensive....this sounds like the titanium spoke gig....

What question do they answer, what problem do they solve?

[jumphigher]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I think the point is the very marginal ‘gains’ of these(if there are any), big $, coupled with pretty typical ‘hype’ about how this will ‘change everything’...
It’s about spokes..they are already pretty light and very reliable and not very expensive....this sounds like the titanium spoke gig....

What question do they answer, what problem do they solve?

Well the amount of weight they save is significant. People spend huge amounts all the time to save a few grams, so I would think there would be interest in these.

Btw what is the Ti spoke gig? I've noticed you cant find them anymore, were they found to be really unreliable or something? I've always wanted to find a nice used set of wheels made with them but they sure are rare these days.

[Louis]

I wonder how they compare to a bladed metal spoke for drag?

Edit: The web site doesn't really provide any comparison for that, so I assume that means that they aren't as good.

[buddybikes]

Didn't mavic have something like this about 10 years ago?

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I'd be more concerned with abrasion of the spokes where they contact the edges of the flange, or where the contact each other at the crosses. But maybe the material is abrasion resistant enough for this not be a concern.

Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene, Spectra, Dyneema, and NanoFly (trade name used in our Osprey gear carrying equipment and back packs, https://outdoorindustry.org/press-re...r-spring-2018/) is claimed to be 8 to 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel.

Shouldn't be an issue, Spectra Fiber Capability Guide: https://www.honeywell-spectra.com/?d...ide&download=1 Light enough to float and Hydrophobic. Does not corrode, excellent abrasion resistance, excellent flex and bending fatigue performance. Very good UV resistance and excellent cut resistance.

[beeatnik]

Originally Posted by cadence90

Plus, they wrote "bike", rather than "bicycle".

So, either they don't know proper "bike" vs "bicycle" usage in the USA
or
they are stealthily really going after Alpina and other motorcycle spoke suppliers' market
or
they are stealthily really going after beeatnik's "bika" market, and intentionally misspelled "bika" for now.


.

Bika market belongs to these vatos:

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by m_sasso

Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene, Spectra, Dyneema, and NanoFly (trade name used in our Osprey gear carrying equipment and back packs, https://outdoorindustry.org/press-re...r-spring-2018/) is claimed to be 8 to 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel.

Shouldn't be an issue, Spectra Fiber Capability Guide: https://www.honeywell-spectra.com/?d...ide&download=1 Light enough to float and Hydrophobic. Does not corrode, excellent abrasion resistance, excellent flex and bending fatigue performance. Very good UV resistance and excellent cut resistance.

Spectra is used in climbing ropes (static) and slings. It is also widely used as rescue line in whitewater Canoeing, Kayaking, and Rafting because it floats does not stretch and can be used to haul pinned boats off of rocks. It does not abrade easily, I have put several tons of force on spectra line that was being dragged over sharp rocks and you can not harm the stuff.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jumphigher

Well the amount of weight they save is significant. People spend huge amounts all the time to save a few grams, so I would think there would be interest in these.

Btw what is the Ti spoke gig? I've noticed you cant find them anymore, were they found to be really unreliable or something? I've always wanted to find a nice used set of wheels made with them but they sure are rare these days.

I don't think it's significant at all..considering on a multi thousand gram bike and rider package. Even a small rider, 125 pounds and bike is 65,000 grams..

Yup, titanium spokes..a b!tch to build with, very unreliable, expensive..again, answered no questons, solved no problem.

BUT sure, if ya want to try them, go ahead, but I see limited utility, no real solution to anything..just in the 'whiz-bang' category.

IMHO, of course.

[MaraudingWalrus]

And what "question" does Dura Ace or Ultegra answer over 105? SR and Record over Chorus? Not really much. It's a bit lighter, a bit "nicer" in a sort of esoteric & nebulous way.

The spokes aren't totally round, they're sort of elliptical in the middle.

They're lighter, that's a thing people want. Whether the significance of ~115g is worth it to you or me has never stopped anyone from doing it on other stuff. And it's rotational weight, which counts a bit extra than cutting 115g of foam out of one's saddle.

Does 115g saved make a difference to me, a 110kg person on a 10kg bike? no, not at all. Does it to some 47-48kg lady who has already made their bike as light as possible in other places, maybe. Not much, but maybe. Does this person want it? Yep.

Darned near everything on this forum that we drool over has no real massive benefit over something that costs 1/10th-1/20th the price, but we still want those things.

This isn't that much different. It's technically better in some ways than steel spokes, and for a particular person in particular circumstances, that's worth it - for others, it's not.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by MaraudingWalrus

And what "question" does Dura Ace or Ultegra answer over 105? SR and Record over Chorus? Not really much. It's a bit lighter, a bit "nicer" in a sort of esoteric & nebulous way.

The spokes aren't totally round, they're sort of elliptical in the middle.

They're lighter, that's a thing people want. Whether the significance of ~115g is worth it to you or me has never stopped anyone from doing it on other stuff. And it's rotational weight, which counts a bit extra than cutting 115g of foam out of one's saddle.

Does 115g saved make a difference to me, a 110kg person on a 10kg bike? no, not at all. Does it to some 47-48kg lady who has already made their bike as light as possible in other places, maybe. Not much, but maybe. Does this person want it? Yep.

Darned near everything on this forum that we drool over has no real massive benefit over something that costs 1/10th-1/20th the price, but we still want those things.

This isn't that much different. It's technically better in some ways than steel spokes, and for a particular person in particular circumstances, that's worth it - for others, it's not.

Yup, and if somebody asks me, I'd say 105 or Ultegra..Chorus is a better value.
115g of rotational weight...or 5 times that, is lost in the noise.
'Technically better'? I guess if you believe the manufacturers text but nobody really know yet.

If ya like these or anything else, 'bike', go ahead and spend your $..NOT saying you shouldn't...but discussion group, discussing and I see limited utility in these seemingly very time consuming spokes...seeing the weight 'savings' at the end.

->IMHO<-

[ergott]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yup, and if somebody asks me, I'd say 105 or Ultegra..Chorus is a better value.
115g of rotational weight...or 5 times that, is lost in the noise.
'Technically better'? I guess if you believe the manufacturers text but nobody really know yet.

If ya like these or anything else, 'bike', go ahead and spend your $..NOT saying you shouldn't...but discussion group, discussing and I see limited utility in these seemingly very time consuming spokes...seeing the weight 'savings' at the end.

->IMHO<-

Actually Tiagra is a better value.

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