Rebecca Twigg is homeless

[Vientomas]

Originally Posted by ftf

All white, land owning men, some of that property other people.

Is it not the foundation for the liberal democracy you described?

[ftf]

Originally Posted by Vientomas

Is it not the foundation for the liberal democracy you described?

No actually democracy even liberal democracy is older than the USA

[ftf]

Originally Posted by Hawker

By the way, based on the number of responses here (yes I know some have responded more than once), if each of us would have sent her $20, she'd have close to $3,500. Not suggesting it...just an observation. I pray she does get some long term emotional and mental assistance.

I can't give every homeless person 20 dollars as distribution itself would be horrific, for just one person to distribute 20 dollars each, it's impossible, this is almost the reason we would need some sort of distribution system to get people like Rebecca 20 dollars from everyone that can afford it. Rebecca Twigg doesn't want my 20 dollars anyways, as she, if everyone would read the article, doesn't want individual assistance, preferring to advocate for all homeless people, a very laudable position. Something that a lot of people are obviously not understanding.


Anyways, on to the larger and more important issue of all homeless people, either all people have equal and intrinsic value and worth, or they are just the sum of their ability to provide paid labor power, which is really the argument being had in this thread. Some think that if you can't hold down a job you don't deserve anything, others see people as equals regardless of ability to function in a very specific manner, that is narrowly defined by a part of society.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by ftf

I can't give every homeless person 20 dollars as distribution itself would be horrific, for just one person to distribute 20 dollars each, it's impossible, this is almost the reason we would need some sort of distribution system to get people like Rebecca 20 dollars from everyone that can afford it. Rebecca Twigg doesn't want my 20 dollars anyways, as she, if everyone would read the article, doesn't want individual assistance, preferring to advocate for all homeless people, a very laudable position. Something that a lot of people are obviously not understanding.


Anyways, on to the larger and more important issue of all homeless people, either all people have equal and intrinsic value and worth, or they are just the sum of their ability to provide paid labor power, which is really the argument being had in this thread. Some think that if you can't hold down a job you don't deserve anything, others see people as equals regardless of ability to function in a very specific manner, that is narrowly defined by a part of society.

Well said. At some point people stopped being citizens and became taxpayers in the eyes of politicians and the vocal part of the public. Their value now can be calculated in $ not citizenship.

[PQJ]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Their value now can be calculated in $ not citizenship.

That's not the fault of politics or government. It's the essence of free market capitalism.

[ftf]

Originally Posted by PQJ

That's not the fault of politics or government. It's the essence of free market capitalism.

I don't think anyone is saying this isn't true. This is exactly the conflict of democracy and capitalism. The values of one do no match the values of the other.

[AngryScientist]

There was a lot of great conversation here, and some remarkable, honest stories shared. This thread is one good example of why we DO allow off topic posts, and it's been very insightful.

it appear we have reached the point of veering far enough away from the original topic that i'm going to close it for now. if there are any updates on RT, please start a new thread.

cheers and thanks for participating all.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

DOD budget is like a huge dinosaur which is getting harder and harder to ‘feed’, but you are right, point out the obscenity of the present DOD budget and get labeled ‘unamerican’ at best, ‘traitor’ at worst. Complete BS.

How times have changed. In WWII, Harry Truman first rose to prominence in the Senate as a fiscal watchdog. His committee examined and publicized waste in wartime spending. Truman was lauded as a protector of the taxpayers' money. As a result, he was asked to be Roosevelt's running mate in 1944. The rest is history...

Greg

[colker]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Housing is expensive, in some places, less in others. But if the government steps in and controls housing costs, are people going to like that their houses may go down in value? Could be a tremendous amount of money on the table. And then you could have a large amount of loans underwater with a large amount of people saying "Hey I'd be better off walking away from this and getting government housing" because they would be homeless. I just don't know the answers - same with defense spending, most cities in the US have tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars coming in for defense contracts, take that away and how many more people can you pill on to the cant pay my underwater mortgage so I may as well walk away? Its a fragile state -

Who said anything about controlling prices? You have estate houses in Europe for people in need while at the same time prices go through the roof. Try to buy a flat in London or Paris.
You need to aplly for an estate house and prove you cannot afford anything else. It´s for those in need. It keeps being government property. You don´t do business w/ it. If you have any money you don´t want to live in those places and it´s not heaven but at least most everybody gets a roof over their heads. It´s a decent solution.

[Mikej]

[QUOTE=colker;2530621]Who said anything about controlling prices?

I guess I mistook the term "rent controlled" which implies that at some point the government said this is how much rent costs.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Gummee

See HenryA's response.

Per the story I linked, some just bring the situation with them when given a chance so someone needs to explain to me (using small words 'cause I obviously don't get it) how the government is going to 'fix' these things.

I'm curious to know when it became the government's problem to fix everything. That certainly wasn't the way the country was founded.

M

A lot of things have changed since the founding of your country. The founding principals of the USA are noble, however, they have not been applied equally to all. Slaves come to mind here as do women and native Americans. Also, try and tell that to those that run to the founding principals in regards to christian preeminence even though the separation of church and state is clear and was written by founding fathers that were agnostic or atheistic and wanted freedom from religion as much as freedom of it. Times change, we learn, we grow, and to be locked in by ideas that were formed several centuries ago is not a way forward when new information is available.

[unterhausen]

The homeless problem in the U.S. went from near zero to massive in the early '80s when mental institutions were emptied. It was political then. There are political fixes. I certainly don't want to cede bike paths near big cities to homeless encampments. There are a lot of problems with how we house homeless in this country. In this area, they have to move from one place to another multiple times per week. How can you break out of that? Sounds like a full time job just moving all the time.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weisan

When I say, "...it starts with us."

I don't mean: Pull up your bootstrap.

I literally meant: ALL OF US

....has to be part of the solution.

Not just the individual involved.

Not just the government.

Not just the family affected.

Not just the society at large.

All of us being part of the solution.

Or else...this problem will and can NEVER be solved. Never.

What does this even mean? Voting? Volunteering at homeless shelter? Contributions?

BIG problem, For richest country on earth that places it's 'budget' priorities in things that benefit a 35-40% minority, keeps them riled up but helps few of those who are marginalized. The solution' needs more than pretty platitudes and nice bumper sticker sayings. It needs $$, and lots of it.
Take a page from some of the NATO countries and per the charter, reduce US DOD budget to that 2% target..Never gonna happen tho..

Maybe a HUD secretary that actually knows what he's doing and not just trying to cut his budget and keep from getting yelled at by the guy in the big seat.

[colker]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

What does this even mean? Voting? Volunteering at homeless shelter? Contributions?

BIG problem, For richest country on earth that places it's 'budget' priorities in things that benefit a 35-40% minority, keeps them riled up but helps few of those who are marginalized. The solution' needs more than pretty platitudes and nice bumper sticker sayings. It needs $$, and lots of it.
Take a page from some of the NATO countries and per the charter, reduce US DOD budget to that 2% target..Never gonna happen tho..

Maybe a HUD secretary that actually knows what he's doing and not just trying to cut his budget and keep from getting yelled at by the guy in the big seat.

Yes. It can be dealt with by governement just like european countries do. Problem does not go away but it gets much better when you can go to an agency and, provided you have no means, get a house to live. If you are a mother of youngsters, it´s immediate, on the spot. No one takes away your kids because you live on the street.. instead, you get a roof for the family. No need for kumbaya... just make housing available for people in need.
If England can do it, why can´t the US?

[Tony]

Originally Posted by raygunner

Thanks for the link.

I'm about 1/3 through it, about where they're speaking of the problem not as a homeless problem but a drug problem.

Affordable housing will not address what is depicted in the documentary.

I was also homeless, 2 years, from 1976-1978. Lots of similarities to berserk. Ended up at a boys ranch for several months.
Spent a week in the summer of 2008 living on the American River building a skin on frame kayak using hand tools and local materials, tent poles... with several homeless who I paid to help with this project.

I'm around and work with the homeless every week as I help my mom who has been feeding the homeless since the early sixties.

https://www.newsreview.com/sacrament...ent?oid=555071

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um7am5YTuxo

What I see is debilitating health issues, heartbreaking loss, laid offs, bad luck, and the most vulnerable and hardest to reach the mentally ill.

A big part of this problem is drug use and refusing to take on responsibility.