LBS shipping problems

[Mustangski]

A friend of mine was recently back in the states, we are military stationed in Japan, and bought a bike from an LBS somewhere in Virginia. He rode it while there for two weeks and had them box and ship the bike to my house in Okinawa.

I received it today and started unboxing it to assemble and get him ready for our group ride on Thursday morning. I'm not a professional bike mechanic but I don't feel this bike was packaged very well. They left the rear derailleur on the bike and either it or the hanger was bent severely in shipping, there was some box damage as well in that area. The chain was installed backwards (Shimano facing inboard). The front derailleur cable was angled in a way that his two weeks of riding rubbed the finish off of his crank arm. And there was a scratch down to the metal on the downtube because they didn't have that part wrapped well. They wrapped the bike in a mix of some foam and some cardboard, the handlebars were wrapped with a single piece of paper and tape. I have put together some pictures for him to send back to the shop were he purchased it and I haven't touched the derailleur until he hears back.

We are calling tomorrow and will list all damage, I told him he may need a quote from an actual bike shop to repair everything.

He also has a good dent in the chain stay right behind the bottom bracket where he was riding and the chain came off the inner ring, spun around the bottom bracket shell and got caught between the chain stay and crank. Dented it pretty good as he doesn't have a chain catcher installed. With all the other issues in how the shop boxed this bike, chain backwards, cable rubbing, I feel like this may have been caused by an improper setup by the LBS initially.

I get some of this may be small issues, but feel like there should have been more care taken when selling a new bike. Some pictures to follow.

Thoughts?

[Mustangski]

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[bikinchris]

I think some of your concerns are legitimate, but not all. I have packed hundreds of bikes and had them shipped with no damage.

Even new bikes are shipped with the rear derailleur mounted. Having a derailleur flopping around in shipping would be bad.

The derailleur cable should have been bent back by the shop, but faulting them when you didn't bend it back yourself is kind of weird.

Chain suck (where the chain doesn't let go of the ring and tries to wrap around the crank) isn't a shipping problem and is frankly, a component fault.

More wrapping means more things to rub paint off. Paint covering needs to be secured so that it won't move. I use pipe insulation and tie wrap it down tight.

Bottom line. Did you buy it to ride it? Or stare at it? It's going to get scratched.

[Mustangski]

Yeah, I get that. It's not my bike, a friend purchased it in the states and had it shipped over here after he rode it for two weeks in Virginia. He had it shipped to my house because I live off base and the LBS was having issues shipping to an FPO, AP address with bikeflights.

He's going to ride the bike, it was bought to ride. I have never personally shipped a bike, however I have received three bikes since living in Japan and have never had an issue like this. The bike looked to be carelessly tossed together and packaged in my opinion, especially when something as simple as the chain being installed backwards.

I get the cable, but he's a new rider and wouldn't/didn't notice. I feel it's more of a professional thing, just because it's purchased to ride doesn't mean it should have been carelessly assembled when paying for it. The crank clicking against the cable would drive me nuts when pedaling, my friend obviously didn't notice but that doesn't make it ok.

The chain suck happened before shipping, my question was more along the lines of noticing carelessness in other areas and wondering if a careless adjustment could have caused it.

Anyway, I may be taking this too seriously as I'm just trying to get this guy back on the road quickly and the careless packaging and adjustment bugged me. Either way, we will see what they say tomorrow.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by bikinchris

I think some of your concerns are legitimate, but not all. I have packed hundreds of bikes and had them shipped with no damage.

Even new bikes are shipped with the rear derailleur mounted. Having a derailleur flopping around in shipping would be bad.

The derailleur cable should have been bent back by the shop, but faulting them when you didn't bend it back yourself is kind of weird.

Chain suck (where the chain doesn't let go of the ring and tries to wrap around the crank) isn't a shipping problem and is frankly, a component fault.

More wrapping means more things to rub paint off. Paint covering needs to be secured so that it won't move. I use pipe insulation and tie wrap it down tight.

Bottom line. Did you buy it to ride it? Or stare at it? It's going to get scratched.

[Mustangski]

I've packed my Ritchey travel bike on a couple occasions and just can't see why the rear derailleur wouldn't be removed, wrapped, and strapped to the bike in some way in order to protect it. Seems like a simple thing to do instead of leaving it hanging.

Like I said, I've never packaged a new bike before but my Look 765 was extremely well packaged, wrapped, and the derailleur removed with zero damage when shipped from a shop in California to Japan.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

I think some of your concerns are legitimate, but not all. I have packed hundreds of bikes and had them shipped with no damage.

Even new bikes are shipped with the rear derailleur mounted. Having a derailleur flopping around in shipping would be bad.

The derailleur cable should have been bent back by the shop, but faulting them when you didn't bend it back yourself is kind of weird.

Chain suck (where the chain doesn't let go of the ring and tries to wrap around the crank) isn't a shipping problem and is frankly, a component fault.

More wrapping means more things to rub paint off. Paint covering needs to be secured so that it won't move. I use pipe insulation and tie wrap it down tight.

Bottom line. Did you buy it to ride it? Or stare at it? It's going to get scratched.

I agree with some of your points, but other ones are a bit disingenuous.

Of the 15 or so bikes I've had packed and shipped to me by LBS's they've all been done in a manner similar to the one in the BikeFlights tutorial, where the parts that are susceptible to movement during shipping are removed then resecured to the bike frame, especially handlebars and rear derailleurs. There's no "flopping around" as the RD is secured to the chainstay on top of the foam wrapping.
https://www.bikeflights.com/pack

And yes, bikes are made to be ridden and used/abused, but said wear and tear should be done BY THE OWNER, NOT the shop. Saying that the damage would end up happening anyways is a pretty crappy way of ensuring customer satisfaction IMHO.

If the OP can prove that the damage caused during shipping was the fault of shoddy packing (hopefully he also took pics of the item as packed after receiving it) the LBS has an obligation to make it right either through some sort of refund or restitution. That is, if they're reputable and not some fly by night operation.

And yes, said restitution is dependent on the OP also being able to prove that their packing was haphazard and not simply taking pics of the bikes condition as it is now.

Hope the OP reports back on the details as they come in.

[bikinchris]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that scratches should be done by the rider and not the shop.

Over the years, I have packed roughly 300 bicycles. I also received and assembled roughly 300 bicycles.

http://www.eaglewheel.us/packing.htm

Some of his damage is more about poor mechanic skills and not packing. I think most of them happened before the bike was packed. Yes, both are the fault of the bike shop.

Taking the rear derailleur off IS sometimes a good idea, but not always. Having a bike flop around in the box is a terrible thing. Putting extra packing in the box because it doesn't fit tight is not the best solution.

Let me remind you that every mass produced new bike I have ever unpacked has had the rear derailleur mounted.

[peanutgallery]

For me, I will pack a bike for a customer but arrangement of shipping is on them. Just email a shipping label and I will carefully install it on the box and allow you to use my shipping addy for the pickup by the date that you're quoted. That way if there's a shipping issue I am out of the equation. Insurance, tracking, percieved damages and all that is on the customer. Works well for me

As far as the actual packing, pretty rote and I leave the rear mech on as I assume if the customer is asking me to pack a bike, pulling that off is a step too far for them to deal with. I use a new bike box and most of the packing material from a similar bike

Mechanical condition and adjustment of a bike before its packed is on the customer unless otherwise arranged

Things happen when shipping a bike 100 miles, much more so when going thousands to an island. Bike owner assumes that risk

[bikinchris]

Which brings up the other question. I am sure the freight company will blame the packing and vice versa. You need good photos of the box as received and the packing job.

[rccardr]

In my world, when I pack a bike with the wheels removed, I always remove the RD, put it in a ziploc, wrap it in bubble wrap, tuck it between the chainstays and secure it. But when packing a bike with the rear wheel on (typical when using a full size bike box), the RD stays on and the outside of it is covered by a layer of thin foam to avoid abrasion against the interior of the box.

If the bike in question was purchased new, then the reversed chain would have been installed at the factory, no? But agreed, sounds like a less than superlative setup job done by the shop.

Whom the OP has not outed, and I am curious as to why.

[eippo1]

Originally Posted by rccardr

But when packing a bike with the rear wheel on (typical when using a full size bike box), the RD stays on and the outside of it is covered by a layer of thin foam to avoid abrasion against the interior of the box.

If the bike in question was purchased new, then the reversed chain would have been installed at the factory, no?

This is all true above and as said prior. A bike with the rear wheel on will have the RD still on with a scrap of a derailleur cable through holding it on the largest cassette sprocket so that the chain doesn't fall off. Then the front wheel is put in front of that to protect the whole thing with the bars rotated in between.

This is how it will have come from the factory as well and whomever puts the bike together will most likely not notice things like the chain, though most shops usually have a more experienced mechanic at least do a once-over of the bike after the assembler has got it all together and tuned. Then most shops will check it again when a customer buys it to make sure nothing is gonna go flop when they go out the door, but something like that would be very unexpected, so easier to miss.

[Mustangski]

Thanks for the responses, and I will respond with the details of what they say about the damage. This was the information I was looking for, I’ve never shipped a complete bike but have received them here. If they come from factory with the derailleur attached then I can see why they would have left it. However, the damage still occurred. My friend that bought the bike isn’t tech savvy, he just likes to ride. My entire issue with this is that the damage occurred and he’s out a bike again until it gets fixed, either at his cost or someone else’s.

I can’t say who the shop was as it isn’t my bike, I’m not sure who he purchased it through and will ensure he calls today to see what they say. The bike was purchased new, ridden in Virginia for two weeks, then taken back to that shop to have it boxed/shipped.

He had insurance on it from shipping and I believe the rear derailleur damage to have occurred while in transit. So hopefully that goes well.

To the guys that work in bike shops, the cassette and chain were replaced prior to shipping because he wanted an 11-32. The chain being put on backwards leads me to believe an inexperienced mech installed and then boxed this with little oversight. I’m not a bike mechanic, but I work in vehicle maintenance for the past 20 years and nothing leaves the shop without a final inspection. That, I feel, is what was lacking.

Should the shop have realized that this bike was being shipped to the other side of the world and packaged it with extra protection?

Thoughts?


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[MrCannonCam]

Whether it's going to the other side of the world or not doesn't matter. I've shipped bikes a few states over and Fedex thrashed the boxes, they get abused no matter what. Worked at a shop that did a lot of online sales and I personally packed most of the bikes. Extra protection doesn't always mean something won't get damaged, proper packing will. Most people would cry if they saw how little packaging Specialized ships even their S Works bikes with but they are methodical to the way they are packed. When shipping consignment or used/demo bikes I always aired on the side of caution and packed a bit extra but always took notes on the Specialized 'touch points' method of packing than went the next step. Sounds like whoever packed it may have under packed the bike slightly, which is a bummer. Not that it's any excuse but you'd be surprised how little packing materials most shops have around as well. This shop clearly didn't keep any of the nifty plastic rear derailleur covers that makes taking an rd off for shipping completely unnecessary...

[Mustangski]

As I continue to think about this, it bugs me a little more.

I’m sure major bike brands ship thousands of bikes a year all over the world, if a small percentage of those are damaged in the process I’m sure the receiving shop can work the warranty and/or repair them before selling.

However, I feel a shop that is being paid to ship a bike to an individual should take additional care to ensure the item gets there without damage.

Is that too much to expect?


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[Black Dog]

None of the damage is catastrophic and is easy to remedy. Is it worth trying to get compensation from the shop or shipper at this point? Call them and let them know what happened and why but don't expect them to make it right, but give them the chance at least. Maybe the owner would like to know and was unaware of the crappy packing etc.... You were not in control of what happened but you can control how you react to all of this. At the end of the day the bike will be ok and it will not take much time or money to make it that way from your end. Might be time to start investing in the solution and not the problem. BTW I agree with your assessment of the crapy work that the LBS did on getting the bike road ready and shipped.