Rivendell saved for now...

[arazate]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

Big spender, what about the soap?

Dude, lay off already, what are you 2? Man, I don't post often here, 99% of you folks seem to be good people. But, that 1%.......

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by arazate

Dude, lay off already, what are you 2? Man, I don't post often here, 99% of you folks seem to be good people. But, that 1%.......

We're all posting in jest and at the same time the soap and axe are real. It's commentary on the fact of how Rivendell lost focus a bit by giving attention to weird stuff on the periphery while the core business went wanting.

By Rivendell's own email they came up short, and if you have excess ax and soap inventory sitting on the shelf they gotta ask themselves did they wander too far into the woods.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

I get it's part of the whole bit, but they've gotta find some better marketing. How does the rando/gravel crew largely miss out on the groad explosion they helped create?

I cant stomach reading this whole thread, but this post stood out on page one because I think a lot of what you're seeing on the groad explosion front is roadies moving over riding roadie inspired bikes (checkpoint, OpenUP, Diverge, et al) and they aren't really going for the Riv thing, and frankly probably never well.

You look at some of these races like STB GRVL, literally announcing the race and course 10 months in advance and you know a massive proportion of the people lining up for that have also at the very least dabbled in cross and business park crits. This explosion of groad event/race/whathaveyou space has the big three and their type of consumer. I have not myself been, but I hear more than a few folks say that the main event of DK is really the vendor expo and seeing the new gravel tech from the big boys.

(someone else already answered this on subsequent pages)

[arazate]

I understand what you are saying; but, in this thread, some of the jest has appeared mean spirited. Perhaps I read it wrong.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by arazate

I understand what you are saying; but, in this thread, some of the jest has appeared mean spirited. Perhaps I read it wrong.

Rivendell has some fans and that's great, but the reality is that Rivendell has issues, there's no denying that. So some folks may not like to read about it but it's true.

Nobody wants to see a business go down but the eccentricity of Rivendell, soaps, ax and all do open it to humor.

You can like a place and people but if said place and people do questionable things, people less in love will call out the crazy pieces.

It's not unhealthy to point out where something is wrong if it is. And there is something wrong there.

[Joe Remi]

The fascination with soap and axes as if this is a new thing eludes me. 25 years ago Riv was selling soap, beeswax and knives..this stuff has always been a quirky sideline for them. A lot of the comments in this thread read as though people just discovered the company and are pissed they're not Surly.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

A lot of the comments in this thread read as though people just discovered the company and are pissed they're not Surly.

I mean true, but Surly is (I think?) financially solvent.

[Joe Remi]

Cool, we can talk about how great Surly is. Surly is gnarly and rad!

[dancinkozmo]

i ride a surly pacer...its a damn good bike..eff you !!

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

The fascination with soap and axes as if this is a new thing eludes me. 25 years ago Riv was selling soap, beeswax and knives..this stuff has always been a quirky sideline for them. A lot of the comments in this thread read as though people just discovered the company and are pissed they're not Surly.

It's not fascination, it's just funny. And sad. Rivendell can't afford quirky sidelines.

Again, you seem to be taking it personally and you really shouldn't. Rivendell made some bad decisions and they are still bleeding money after a handout.

Listen, if ski merchant peanutgallery can't pay his bills and begs for money while he has ten cases of mustache wax going out of date in the back, I'll be the first to rib him about it.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

The fascination with soap and axes as if this is a new thing eludes me. 25 years ago Riv was selling soap, beeswax and knives..this stuff has always been a quirky sideline for them. A lot of the comments in this thread read as though people just discovered the company and are pissed they're not Surly.

This is a good point... I don't know why Rivs aren't selling like they once did, Grant has always had his quirks for sure... I think one of the issues is they've just lost the value folks saw in them on a large scale. It appears from the last catalog that all of the bikes except the customs might be made in Taiwan and are still around $1500-$1600 for a frameset. I think there are other options in steel, sturdy bikes made in Taiwan that are much more affordable... combine that with some of the less desirable frames (in many folk's eyes), like the mixte frames, and you have a dying niche... At one point I would have paid that amount for a lugged, steel, made in Taiwan frameset, but at this point I've realized my Black Mtn will do all of that (maybe better ride, subjective) at almost a third of the price. The Bleriot I had was a good deal because it was the "overseas bike" that was cheaper than the US made version...

For folks who want Lugs and the Riv vibe, they are one of the few left unless you want to pay a lot money, I guess I just feel the majority have moved on...

That's my thoughts anyway...

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by Burnette

It's not fascination, it's just funny. And sad. Rivendell can't afford quirky sidelines.

Again, you seem to be taking it personally and you really shouldn't. Rivendell made some bad decisions and they are still bleeding money after a handout.

Listen, if ski merchant peanutgallery can't pay his bills and begs for money while he has ten cases of mustache wax going out of date in the back, I'll be the first to rib him about it.

You're in no position to tell me what I should or shouldn't take personally.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

The fascination with soap and axes as if this is a new thing eludes me. 25 years ago Riv was selling soap, beeswax and knives..this stuff has always been a quirky sideline for them. A lot of the comments in this thread read as though people just discovered the company and are pissed they're not Surly.

Just as you asked for people not to imply things you didn't say, that street goes both ways.

The point many, including myself, are making is that the sideline stuff increasingly seems like the front and center stuff.

Rather than selling really good bikes, it's some either ill-executed attempt at a lifestyle brand, or just Grant's personal interests expressed as a business. Which, yes, that's basically all Riv has largely ever been, but when the #1 item listed in the holiday gift guide is an axe, or there's a couple thousand words on the blog extolling soap varietals, something has clearly gone pear-shaped in the approach to the market.

Again, the kind of riding that Grant and team has espoused for decades is THE trend in the industry, and instead of making hay while the sun shines, they're asking folks to buy gift cards to help replenish a reserve that needs to be deeper than it should be, a year after holding out the hat to very clearly keep the lights on.

It's not that they're not Surly. Far from it. They should be eating Surly's lunch. And owning a segment they've basically created with really kick-ass bikes and kick-ass accessories. What's there today by any external expression is not that.

If anything, what you construe as "they're not Surly" is some exasperation from those who recognize Grant and Riv's work for the visionary stuff it is, and that the guys who got it before anyone else now seem to be badly missing the plot for reasons that escape a lot of us, even with all this radical transparency.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

You're in no position to tell me what I should or shouldn't take personally.

I'm sorry if you do, because the thread is about Rivendell.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Just as you asked for people not to imply things you didn't say, that street goes both ways.

The point many, including myself, are making is that the sideline stuff increasingly seems like the front and center stuff.

Rather than selling really good bikes, it's some either ill-executed attempt at a lifestyle brand, or just Grant's personal interests expressed as a business. Which, yes, that's basically all Riv has largely ever been, but when the #1 item listed in the holiday gift guide is an axe, or there's a couple thousand words on the blog extolling soap varietals, something has clearly gone pear-shaped in the approach to the market.

Again, the kind of riding that Grant and team has espoused for decades is THE trend in the industry, and instead of making hay while the sun shines, they're asking folks to buy gift cards to help replenish a reserve that needs to be deeper than it should be, a year after holding out the hat to very clearly keep the lights on.

It's not that they're not Surly. Far from it. They should be eating Surly's lunch. And owning a segment they've basically created with really kick-ass bikes and kick-ass accessories. What's there today by any external expression is not that.

If anything, what you construe as "they're not Surly" is some exasperation from those who recognize Grant and Riv's work for the visionary stuff it is, and that the guys who got it before anyone else now seem to be badly missing the plot for reasons that escape a lot of us, even with all this radical transparency.

I see no evidence that the bikes themselves aren't selling. The problem seems to be on the parts end, where they're being undercut online for stuff that anybody seems to be able to offer at fire sale prices now. That's just the reality of our new Amazon World, and there isn't a helluva lot Riv can do about it..they're certainly not the only company being affected.

Frankly the fringe stuff may be a calling card that still works for them to the extent it does. It's just a hard time out there all the way around.