OT - Dow plunges 1,175 - worst point decline in history

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by marciero

Many companies are recognizing that socially and environmentally ethical practices make good business sense, for any number of reasons, and that failing to address them will negatively affect the bottom the line.

Well that's plenty vague isn't it and sentiment is not a driver in the market.

It has been and always will be about the money.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by veloduffer

That may not be true as the ESG-sustainability movement is rapidly influencing asset management and all major corporations. Companies with poor ESG scorecards may be shunned by the big institutional investors, like pension funds, etc. And institutional shareholders are questioning the management of firms about their sustainability actions.

Of course, there's cases of "greenwashing", too. The issues with ESG is that there are no methodologies-measurements for baselines and performance. Bono (of U2 band) and hedge fund TPG announced a venture to develop analytics on ESG.

It's a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by marciero

Many companies are recognizing that socially and environmentally ethical practices make good business sense, for any number of reasons, and that failing to address them will negatively affect the bottom the line.

Not where I live.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by marciero

Many companies are recognizing that socially and environmentally ethical practices make good business sense, for any number of reasons, and that failing to address them will negatively affect the bottom the line.

Depends on the product and the target consumer. Most the crap in Walmart comes from China or a SE Asia country. If you can sell work pants for $15, you'll sell a lot of work pants. And I'm being rather broad with the "crap" comment, the factories in Asia compete for the contracts and the buyer who is putting their label on those pants have to protect their reputation, but a plant with almost no environmental concerns in a location blanketed in smog running on power from fossil fueled plants made them.

I see American made jeans made with US sourced materials selling for $60, Walmart sells Wrangler branded jeans for $16. Guess who sells more. Brands sell, regardless of where they were made.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Burnette

Well that's plenty vague isn't it and sentiment is not a driver in the market.

It has been and always will be about the money.

Sure was and the above sentence is the 'bottom line'...

[Burnette]

Bump up in the Dow and China down:
On February 15, the Dow Jones surged by 1.74 percent, adding 443.86 points. Within less than 1 month, the Dow Jones has recovered from 24,065 points to 25,883 points, by a staggering 7.6 percent.

The prospect of a comprehensive trade deal may have significantly improved in the last 24 hours. Reports claimed corporate China has begun to face an increasing number of defaults.

According to FT, Chinese President Xi Jinping said on Friday that cooperation between the U.S. and China is beneficial for both parties, expressing his willingness to strike a full-scale accord.

“China and the US are inseparable. They both do well or they both get hurt. Co-operation is the best choice.”

If no trade deal is established, China will struggle to recover its domestic market and prevent the growing number of defaults by local conglomerates. While the U.S. is seemingly in a better position, a trade deal would alleviate pressure from the stock market and maintain the momentum of the Dow Jones and other major indexes.

https://www.ccn.com/dow-surges-443-p...market-on-fire

[Tony T]

Trade Wars are winnable?

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Tony T

Trade Wars are winnable?

Win isn't the right word, maybe call it a draw.

Per the article, China's economy is taking a timely dump, which happens to work in our favor. My personal takeaway and reason for posting this is that big money on both sides want to wrap this up and go back to making money.


It looks like, from the public wording within the text, they are close to coming to some sort of agreement. Dermtaila if the d is al aside, just removing the trade war from the table has Dow forecasters seeing a big uptick.

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by Tony T

Trade Wars are winnable?

Conducting a trade war against the rest of the world worked pretty well for China over the last thirty years. Interesting how people complain when the U.S. fights back.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

Conducting a trade war against the rest of the world worked pretty well for China over the last thirty years.

And so you think that it's their trade policies that have allowed them to get to where they are now?

Somehow, I think having a huge population with millions of massively underemployed people available for cheap labor might have played a role.

[Burnette]

The takeaway from the article is that both parties are expressing a willingness to cut a deal.

“China and the US are inseparable. They both do well or they both get hurt. Co-operation is the best choice.”

Everybody gets it. The push by big money to put this to bed on both sides is working it towards resolution.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by Louis

And so you think that it's their trade policies that have allowed them to get to where they are now?

Somehow, I think having a huge population with millions of massively underemployed people available for cheap labor might have played a role.

it's not an either/or situation

pent-up economic growth following 30 years of centralized economic mismanagement led to 30 years of growth at a high rate (this is where utilization of cheap labor comes in)

but there's also outright theft of intellectual property via the joint venture, pegging of the RMB to the USD at a fixed rate, and allowing market-driven deviation when it suits a devaluation of the RMB.

not to mention that the relaxation of economic policies just happen to coincide with the massive off-shoring efforts of American companies, thus providing orders to factories that need work. Those aforementioned cheap laborers were able to work in the coastal areas b/c of relaxed policies re: inter-provincial migration.

way too simplistic to pin all of this on just the policies of one nation...

[54ny77]

That, plus massive tariffs on imported goods.

Win-win....for Chinese business and government....

...and a multitude of bike-related manufacturers too...

...ergo, benefit to Paceliners who use such things....

...and esp. who use computers to log into Paceline.

Circle of life and all that.....

Originally Posted by Louis

And so you think that it's their trade policies that have allowed them to get to where they are now?

Somehow, I think having a huge population with millions of massively underemployed people available for cheap labor might have played a role.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

That, plus massive tariffs on imported goods.

Win-win....for Chinese business and government....

...and a multitude of bike-related manufacturers too...

...ergo, benefit to Paceliners who use such things....

...and esp. who use computers to log into Paceline.

Circle of life and all that.....

Tongue in cheek but much truth here too! China screwed their people (cheap labor), our companies (intellectual property) and money markets (currency manipulation) and in turn our companies and consumers also profited from Chinese laborers through cheap goods and services.

Which goes back to the point, all parties want the game to continue and are more inclined today than yesterday to resolve this.

[54ny77]

Do us here 'Mericans want (or let alone be able) to buy $200 New Balance sneakers that are made onshore ("that contains a domestic value of 70% or greater"), or is the weekend shopping decision a no brainer to fit the kids and family with the $15 version from Wally World?

The market seems to be answering that question.

And thus the race to an even greater socio-economic divide continues.

Originally Posted by Burnette

Tongue in cheek but much truth here too! China screwed their people (cheap labor), our companies (intellectual property) and money markets (currency manipulation) and in turn our companies and consumers also profited from Chinese laborers through cheap goods and services.

Which goes back to the point, all parties want the game to continue and are more inclined today than yesterday to resolve this.

[93svt96]

My American made NB were 130.00 ish