What’s on your coffee bench?

[fmradio516]

whats the deal with the bottomless portafilter?

[scoobydrew]

Originally Posted by fmradio516

whats the deal with the bottomless portafilter?

Provides visualization on how well or poor the extraction is. For instance, you will clearly be able to see channeling (spraying) and effects of poor puck prep (uneven extraction / coffee comes out of basket holes unevenly).

[crankles]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

Excellent question!!!

Others please correct me if I am wrong/off on this. In level of importance:

Beans
Grinder
Puck prep
Water
Scale-timer
Espresso machine

I'd bump water up on par with beans...only because hard water makes a crap cup of coffee. I, like Steve, have a plumbed in machine and have several filters in-line, the last of which is an ion-exchange cartridge.

My machine, a linea AV (basically the International Harvester of espresso machines) has no pre-infusion (although, I think I can fudge one), so I need to pay a bit more attention to puck-prep, but we are talking 5 seconds with a WDT. I get no channeling using a naked portafilter. Other than that, I think the order is right on.

I pulled great shots on a silvia (a PID helped a lot) that I had in my office, so the espresso machine really is last on the list.

[echappist]

Thanks for the suggestions on the dab of water. Seem to have solved most of the issue. There was still a bit of grounds that refuse to come out, but a lot better than this morning, where by inverting the metal canister, ~1.5 g of grounds was scattered on my bench.

—————


Also, can someone offer a critique of what I do.

Current set-up:

-Rancilio Silvia with PID and bottomless portafilter; 2-sec preinfusion, 33 sec shot;
-Niche Zero, set to ~14-15.
-16.6 g. Intend to get 40 g out, but it’s been quite variable lately (only constant is the 16.6 g loaded per extraction).

I get quite a bit of channeling, occasional puffs of moisture, occasional spraying, and “inverted bell”.

If the preinfusion is any longer, i get leakage.

What are some concrete steps to try? Needle/ safety pin for distribution? Finer grind? Or perhaps larger mass of grinds?

The really disappointing thing is that 3 years on from my post upthread, rarely do I get an extraction like what i was getting then. Back then, i had a Baratza Preciso; now i have a Niche Zero. Yet my espresso experience seems to be headed in the wrong direction... back then, i rarely needed to clean the chrome façade of the machine; now it’s a weekly thing, due to the spraying. Then again, it was even worse a few months ago with the Baratza (before i switched to the Niche), as there was nothing even about the extraction, and there was spraying almost every extraction, often in multiple directions.

[jkbrwn]

Obvs have no idea without seeing it, but leakage and puffs of moisture make me think there may be a poor seal at the grouphead?

Also, 16.6 in for 40 out on an automatic machine is interesting. Why such a low dose? Have you tried a coarser grind with a higher dose? Are you ever close to choking the machine? Are you tamping with force?

[echappist]

Anything more than 16.8, and i can’t properly seat the portafilter (as in, can’t line the portafilter with the dot). I was thinking maybe finer and larger dosage, but coarser and larger dose would seem to prevent proper loading?

Or perhaps i should use the triple basket and try the coarser + larger dose?

The seal is new-ish, and the leakage is from the bottom of basket only.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by echappist

If the preinfusion is any longer, i get leakage.

Leakage through the puck, or leakage around the portafilter?

(2 sec. is a very short pre-infusion . . .)

Does a finer grind reduce the spraying (even if not ideal for flavor)?

Originally Posted by echappist

rarely do I get an extraction like what i was getting then.

Unless you've done this already, I would start with thorough descaling and complete cleaning of grouphead, including behind the shower screen. Consider replacing the portafilter gasket and shower screen.

Might be worth having a professional do this, if there is such a business local to you. They will have instruments to verify that pump output pressure is in the right ballpark.

[scoobydrew]

Originally Posted by echappist

Anything more than 16.8, and i can’t properly seat the portafilter (as in, can’t line the portafilter with the dot). I was thinking maybe finer and larger dosage, but coarser and larger dose would seem to prevent proper loading?

Or perhaps i should use the triple basket and try the coarser + larger dose?

The seal is new-ish, and the leakage is from the bottom of basket only.

If you already have the Rancilio "triple" basket, I would give that a shot. One hypothesis is that there's limited headspace between the top of the puck and shower screen that can lead to variability and other extraction issues.

With the larger basket and added headspace, the water will fill that volume and will almost act as a pre-infusion by saturating the bed, potentially improving extraction just like actual pre-infusion would. Additionally, the added space will eliminate the likelihood of your puck touching the screen. This is particularly an issue when you install your PF to the machine (twisting action can move or "rotate" the puck in an extreme case).

Try a 18g dose in that basket. You'll need to tweak your grind size obviously, but may also need to tweak your pre-infusion settings. When I had a Silvia (no PID) a 18-18.5g dose (bean dependent), triple basket, proper puck prep, and temp surfing yielded great results. I ran into similar inconsistency issues with a Rancilio "double" basket and had to down-dose a bit to get decent results.

Puck prep wise, it sounds like you need to add WDT/distribution to your workflow to distribute the grounds. An unbent paperclip will work okay for the time being, but I recommend using something finer such as 3D printer tip cleaning needles (cheap on Amazon). If you want to spend more, you can get a Levercraft WDT tool or potentially 3D print one of the many WDT tool designs off Thingiverse.

[ripvanrando]

I think I get sloppy with the puck at 4 am sometimes.

I only have a Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo, which I suppose is like 105 in the Espresso world. I am 95% good but maybe one out of 20 or 30 isn't. I think my problem is occasional channeling.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by scoobydrew

If you already have the Rancilio "triple" basket, I would give that a shot. One hypothesis is that there's limited headspace between the top of the puck and shower screen that can lead to variability and other extraction issues.

With the larger basket and added headspace, the water will fill that volume and will almost act as a pre-infusion by saturating the bed, potentially improving extraction just like actual pre-infusion would. Additionally, the added space will eliminate the likelihood of your puck touching the screen. This is particularly an issue when you install your PF to the machine (twisting action can move or "rotate" the puck in an extreme case).

Try a 18g dose in that basket. You'll need to tweak your grind size obviously, but may also need to tweak your pre-infusion settings. When I had a Silvia (no PID) a 18-18.5g dose (bean dependent), triple basket, proper puck prep, and temp surfing yielded great results. I ran into similar inconsistency issues with a Rancilio "double" basket and had to down-dose a bit to get decent results.

Puck prep wise, it sounds like you need to add WDT/distribution to your workflow to distribute the grounds. An unbent paperclip will work okay for the time being, but I recommend using something finer such as 3D printer tip cleaning needles (cheap on Amazon). If you want to spend more, you can get a Levercraft WDT tool or potentially 3D print one of the many WDT tool designs off Thingiverse.

I assume your machine is a 58mm, yes? If so, to add to this, the E & B superfine basket is like cheating when it comes to helping to keep from channeling. Also, a puck screen will help you from having channeling and it also helps keep your machine cleaner.

2 more items to spend money on…lol. No one said it’s a cheap hobby. But when you get it right, oh so satisfying!!!….

[crankles]

Originally Posted by scoobydrew

If you already have the Rancilio "triple" basket, I would give that a shot. One hypothesis is that there's limited headspace between the top of the puck and shower screen that can lead to variability and other extraction issues.

With the larger basket and added headspace, the water will fill that volume and will almost act as a pre-infusion by saturating the bed, potentially improving extraction just like actual pre-infusion would. Additionally, the added space will eliminate the likelihood of your puck touching the screen. This is particularly an issue when you install your PF to the machine (twisting action can move or "rotate" the puck in an extreme case).

Try a 18g dose in that basket. You'll need to tweak your grind size obviously, but may also need to tweak your pre-infusion settings. When I had a Silvia (no PID) a 18-18.5g dose (bean dependent), triple basket, proper puck prep, and temp surfing yielded great results. I ran into similar inconsistency issues with a Rancilio "double" basket and had to down-dose a bit to get decent results.

Puck prep wise, it sounds like you need to add WDT/distribution to your workflow to distribute the grounds. An unbent paperclip will work okay for the time being, but I recommend using something finer such as 3D printer tip cleaning needles (cheap on Amazon). If you want to spend more, you can get a Levercraft WDT tool or potentially 3D print one of the many WDT tool designs off Thingiverse.

A friend printed this one for me...works great. Needles were $7 on amazon. even cheaper on alibaba. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4819617

[merlinmurph]

OK, I have to say that this thread is totally entertaining. I know nothing about this stuff, but I could definitely go down the rat hole of coffee stuff. And I'm definitely learning something.

SoCalSteve: That's not a coffee bench, that's a coffee palace. I don't even know what most of those machines are, but they're gorgeous. Make my plastic AeroPress look very pedestrian.

Anyways, thanks for the entertainment and all the good info.

[ERK55]

[QUOTE=SoCalSteve;3037039]Excellent question!!!

Others please correct me if I am wrong/off on this. In level of importance:

Beans
Grinder
Puck prep
Water
Scale-timer
Espresso machine


Where does the operator come into play on this list?

[SoCalSteve]

[QUOTE=ERK55;3037232]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

Excellent question!!!

Others please correct me if I am wrong/off on this. In level of importance:

Beans
Grinder
Puck prep
Water
Scale-timer
Espresso machine


Where does the operator come into play on this list?

Mostly in the preparation of the puck, even though there are plenty of tools to help make this step more consistent. Dialing in the grind is also huge for the operator. It’s kind of like truing a wheel, only different, but similar…

[jkbrwn]

Just realised I've never actually shared my own coffee bench. Humble but delicious coffee all around. Ain't no milk drinks here!

Left to right:

Upgraded Robot tamper
Robot with pressure gauge and upgraded hands
Random cocaine I mean jewelry scales (big joke!)
Hario scales for pourover
1ZPresso JX-Pro
Aeropress
V60
Bialetti

The latter of which never gets used but it looks cute, right?