Rapha Core

[sandyrs]

Originally Posted by ojingoh

I had the opposite response. They are adding yet another Rapha, so more potential confusion. They are competing with themselves and making less money.

My guess is they are using less expensive Chinese textiles and manufacture, maybe without the Elastic Interface-sourced chamois they have been using, to hit a price point. This is curious to me, coming from a company that is so good at marketing to affluent bike riders.

It is the same chamois as the Classic bibs.

Do you think they will make less money because they will sell fewer total kits, or because the margins will be smaller on the Core stuff, or...?

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by sandyrs

It is the same chamois as the Classic bibs.

Do you think they will make less money because they will sell fewer total kits, or because the margins will be smaller on the Core stuff, or...?

I'm sure some people will trade down from the classic bibs to get this new offering. But, let's put on our MBA hats.

New Customers now have a choice between the classic and core. If we believe that Rapha has already saturated the segment of cyclists willing to pay >$200 for bibs, then we can be reasonably sure that new customers will be more interested in the core offering. You might get a few folks who would have bought the classics, and instead they buy the core, but probably most of the incremental customers will go for the core.

Existing customers on the other hand already have the classic and probably like it. When they need to make the decision that they want new bibs, they have a series of choices. Do they go for the Rapha classics again? if so, easy sale. If they decide they don't need that level of bibs (maybe the classics are their weekend long ride bibs, and they need to replace some week day, 1.5 hour bibs), they used to have to find another brand. Now, they can justify purchasing these Core bibs, when the alternative was probably a non-Rapha product.

Just to play devil's advocate. What if Rapha has gotten more efficient and built better capabilities and is able to negotiate better deals on materials and labor due to its volume. It is possible that they could make the same dollar gross margin on these new shorts as they do on the classic. In which case, they'd be indifferent as to which one a customer buys (except for the low frequency effects).

[chiasticon]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Just to play devil's advocate. What if Rapha has gotten more efficient and built better capabilities and is able to negotiate better deals on materials and labor due to its volume. It is possible that they could make the same dollar gross margin on these new shorts as they do on the classic. In which case, they'd be indifferent as to which one a customer buys (except for the low frequency effects).

that's kind of what the bikeradar article refers to actually, as being one of the sources of the lower prices here.

[chriscap]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Now, they can justify purchasing these Core bibs, when the alternative was probably a non-Rapha product.

This is the situation I find myself in currently. I've been looking at picking up a pair of higher quality bibs than I normally wear, but I'm not in a position where I can drop more than $200. Now there's a Rapha option to add to the mix.

[pgrizzwald]

Wow! Thanks for the seriously in-depth review & recs. Awesome.

Originally Posted by MattTuck

A little more detail on my previous response.

There should be an image below, if not, please PM me.

The red chamois on the left is the Giro chamois, and the black one on the right is the Rapha. Two things stick out, the stitching to hold the chamois in place is totally different on the two shorts, with the Rapha seeming to be more robust.

The other thing to note is the normal stitching that holds the panels together. The rapha is a flat stitch. The Giro is not flat, it has a flap where the two pieces of fabric are stitched together.

Those are the kind of things that I'm wondering about in the new Rapha line. Where will they take ~$22 out of the classic bib shorts (assuming price is 3x labor and material)?

[bheight1]

Originally Posted by sandyrs

It is the same chamois as the Classic bibs.

Do you think they will make less money because they will sell fewer total kits, or because the margins will be smaller on the Core stuff, or...?

Or, they will be adding helmets, because everyone in video is wearing them.

[Spdntrxi]

I really like the no neck feature of the pro-team line.. If the core line was similar it would be a no brainer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by bheight1

Or, they will be adding helmets, because everyone in video is wearing them.

The helmet is coming
http://pages.rapha.cc/en_US/products...xteen-for-2016

9. Protecting Extremities
Beyond clothing, we are also equipping pro racers with more shoes, eyewear and a Rapha helmet this year.

Ironic that everyone is wearing the affordable kit, yet also wearing the unaffordable shoes (BTW I am selling a 44.0 white in the classifieds).

[bloody sunday]

I've had rapha classic bibs and hated them. I only wear the classic jersey (i'm up to three now that I rotate - same color too), but I wear assos shorts, I can't see switching, though matching kit would be nice, I can't seem to find a more comfortable short than assos...

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by SpeedyChix

No women's bibs in this new line is a major miss. Although the current ones aren't super high-end but the chamois is great for long days on the road.

All signs point to an expansion of women's offerings. Simon came by the RCCSF last year and indicated this as a core direction

Originally Posted by MattTuck

What if Rapha has gotten more efficient and built better capabilities and is able to negotiate better deals on materials and labor due to its volume. It is possible that they could make the same dollar gross margin on these new shorts as they do on the classic. In which case, they'd be indifferent as to which one a customer buys (except for the low frequency effects).

^this. obviously any "higher end" retailer needs an entry model. how about those little $30k mercedes? same thing. and, if they manage their margins, its a win for them and a win for us.

frankly I'd love to see rapha core eliminate all those pearl izumi cookie monster type jerseys I see on "bigger" riders.

[kitsnob]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

All signs point to an expansion of women's offerings. Simon came by the RCCSF last year and indicated this as a core direction

^this. obviously any "higher end" retailer needs an entry model. how about those little $30k mercedes? same thing. and, if they manage their margins, its a win for them and a win for us.

frankly I'd love to see rapha core eliminate all those pearl izumi cookie monster type jerseys I see on "bigger" riders.

You DON'T want one of those starter 30K MB's. 1st off, that's a strippy with ZERO options - you gotta drop at least 38K before you get anything 1/2 way decent, 2nd the "A" class is not that great ... It's not a TRUE Mercedes.
MB was trying to go after the lower end Asian Import driver/lesee/owner (Toyo/Honda/Mitsu)
Owner/Lesee beware!

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by kitsnob

You DON'T want one of those starter 30K MB's. 1st off, that's a strippy with ZERO options - you gotta drop at least 38K before you get anything 1/2 way decent, 2nd the "A" class is not that great ... It's not a TRUE Mercedes.
MB was trying to go after the lower end Asian Import driver/lesee/owner (Toyo/Honda/Mitsu)
Owner/Lesee beware!

yup, but the price point is attractive to folks who might not otherwise consider the brand. they get you in the door and then...

[bloody sunday]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

All signs point to an expansion of women's offerings. Simon came by the RCCSF last year and indicated this as a core direction

^this. obviously any "higher end" retailer needs an entry model. how about those little $30k mercedes? same thing. and, if they manage their margins, its a win for them and a win for us.

frankly I'd love to see rapha core eliminate all those pearl izumi cookie monster type jerseys I see on "bigger" riders.

I think I need to see a picture of what you're talking about here

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by bloody sunday

I think I need to see a picture of what you're talking about here

be careful, some things once seen cannot be unseen

[druptight]

Any ride report on the rapha core bibs, particularly by someone who has ridden the classics?

Got a coupon and thinking about stocking up a bit, but want to know what the difference is between the two. I've read same chamois, but what about the lycra? Similar? Fit? Stitching?

Thanks in advance if anyone has any real world experience.