Rene Herse Derailleurs

[benb]

The two cable setup does make sense but it also seems like it's going to be more vulnerable to friction and resistance/fouling, maybe the lack of housing will help there. It will also likely be quite heavy. You'd think it would setup easily.

This is a super niche thing. No way I believe he's going to touch Campy & Shimano levels of performance. Maybe durability. It looks like it will be quite heavy, but that might not matter in this day and age when everything is so darn light anyway.

No word on pricing, I bet it's going to be very expensive.

I'd rather he focus on this than tires or brakes. Less chance of putting anyone in the hospital with poor choices and engineering.

I would actually agree with his idea that brifters beat the crap out of your hands. I think there's something very bad ergonomically with brifters and feel like they're taking a toll on my wrists over the last 20 years. Tendonitis, and I worry about what happens to the first of us who have rode on modern brifters for 40 years or more. Are they going to leave some with arthritis? It's such a niche thing it's going to be hard for anyone to ever say it's an issue, but it seems like electronic shifting is partly recognition that the cable brifters are not great for wrists. A doctor or PT specializing in hand/wrist issues would not look kindly at the motions and hand postures compared to DT or bar end shifters or MTB trigger shifters I think.

I am not sure this is the solution though.. it is part of a solution if he's going back to downtube shifters though. But I think quite a bit of the ergonomics problem has to do with the hood position being poor for wrist ergonomics for a lot of people. There's a narrow group of people the hoods fit just right and their bike fit puts their hands right at the correct angle.

[dirttorpedo]

I never want to go back to downtube shifters on my daily riders ever again.

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[NHAero]

The shifter may be like the Rohloff shifter, also two cable

[benb]

I've never even had a bike with DT shifters actually.

I test rode one bike with bar end shifters. (Surly LHT)

For a non race bike I'd still try it if the right bike presented itself.

[truth]

Originally Posted by benb

I'd rather he focus on this than tires or brakes. Less chance of putting anyone in the hospital with poor choices and engineering.

What's wrong with Rene Herse brakes?

[torelli]

Originally Posted by dirttorpedo

I never want to go back to downtube shifters on my daily riders ever again.

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Ditto my first bike had them, actually it was about a couple of years before STI shifters debuted.

Frankly I don't get this Rene Herse love. Niche product at the very very best. What's next? Going back to 20mm tires? Toe clips? Leather net helmets?

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by torelli

Ditto my first bike had them, actually it was about a couple of years before STI shifters debuted.

Frankly I don't get this Rene Herse love. Niche product at the very very best. What's next? Going back to 20mm tires? Toe clips? Leather net helmets?

Totally agree about shifters.

This is what's next

[benb]

Originally Posted by truth

What's wrong with Rene Herse brakes?

Nothing as far as I'm aware.. just that brake failures are more dangerous than derailleur failures.

I don't trust his engineering talk. He brags too much about his PhD and talks too much pseudo science about engineering while simultaneously not being an engineer (he's a geologist) and not having an engineer on staff.

He's exceptional at marketing. If he wasn't so breathless with the marketing I'd be less suspicious.

Unfortunately I mostly feel he is not unique in this stuff.. there's lots of other cycling companies that make me uncomfortable.

[Pastashop]

Let me introduce a concept: Dominant Design...

Once a thing reaches some level of functionality that satisfies ~90% of use cases and resolves a significant trade-off that existed, the design stabilizes in a fundamental manner, with innovation around the edges.

The flip phone –*solved the trade-off between large for operation vs. compact for portage. Then the smart-phone with a touch screen solved the trade-off of needing a large screen to maximize content viewing vs. needing a keyboard for massive text entry (better than BlackBerry, for example). Then you have small-scale modifications in edge roundness or colors or biometrics...

Now bikes:

The Starley Safety bike replaced the Penny-Farthing, using the chain drive to resolve the trade-off between going fast (requiring a large diameter wheel) and being safe (lower to the ground).

The pneumatic (air-filled) tires of Dunlop resolved the trade-off in going fast over rough terrain and being comfortable.

Downtube shifters solved the trade-off between the convenience of the ability to change gear ratio vs. the inconvenience of having to stop to shift...

Then people mucked around with pure friction vs. retrofriction vs. indexing...

After that, brifter designs resolved the trade-off of shifting while riding, but wanting to do it faster and with both hands on the bars. Followed by mucking around with Campy vs. Shimano vs. SRAM actual shifting designs.

So, yes, it's easy to recognize that the downtube shifters Jan is pushing are a marginal product.

But how many of the things we get excited about are in that category?..

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

The bike world is a better place with Jan in it.

But man this is 17 levels of crazy.

If I ran the show, I might sneak in a crazy little something every once in a while too. Sounds like fun.

I admire the audacity of this endeavor.

[NHAero]

Given that using this derailleur will need custom work to a frame, it's on another level than a very expensive niche product like THM components, which cost the earth but you can just bolt them on. I can't figure out how they will make money with this product unless they write off any sunk costs as research and perhaps even fun, and then sell the product itself for what it costs being made in very small quantities in a machine shop.

[merlinmurph]

I have to say, I do like it when someone breaks the mold and tries something with a blank slate. Let's see what can be done. Admittedly, it wasn't a totally blank slate as he modeled it after a previous design.

Still, he was after something very specific, tinkered with it, and came up with something. I appreciate the effort. Would I consider one? Nope, but I don't fit the target. Cool project, nonetheless.

The FD? Ugh. Really, reach down and move it? I'll admit having to kick the FD on a mtb occasionally to get it to move, but I really don't want that to be my primary method of shifting.

[dirttorpedo]

Originally Posted by benb

I've never even had a bike with DT shifters actually.



I test rode one bike with bar end shifters. (Surly LHT)



For a non race bike I'd still try it if the right bike presented itself.

My first adult road bike came with friction dt shifters and I was happy enough with them until I bought my first mountain bike. When I went back to road riding after over 20 years of mountain biking I got brifters and they were a revelation. I picked up a vintage road bike for eroica events and it really brought home how much dt sucks. I've got bar ends and gevenalles on my gravel and touring bikes for the bomb proofness they offer, but unless you want to suffer like the eroici stay away from dt.

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[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by merlinmurph

Still, he was after something very specific, tinkered with it, and came up with something. I appreciate the effort. Would I consider one? Nope, but I don't fit the target. Cool project, nonetheless.

Really, who is the target market, though? I'd go so far as to say there isn't one. Sorry Jan, might be serious to you, but this is the definition of novelty.

[bicycletricycle]

I am one person in his target market. I don't think I am the only one.

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Really, who is the target market, though? I'd go so far as to say there isn't one. Sorry Jan, might be serious to you, but this is the definition of novelty.